Post Your Needledrops (Part Three)

Another couple of tries.....

Muddy Waters - Mannish Boy from Hard Again WLP
http://www.mediafire.com/?7kaq8mo9faun7u7
The Cars - Let The Good Times Roll - S/T WLP
http://www.mediafire.com/?naaara6gi2q4coe


I tweaked the volume after ripping and it seems improved....audio properties are proper as well...no phase issues I can hear or find in the audio properties of the file.

Denon DP-790 w/Zyx R50 Bloom MC - Denon AU300 SUT
B&K Pro 101 MC
Creative Live USB 24 Bit
Gold Wave 24/96
Click Repair @ 30
Audacity for Flac @ 24/96 level 8

 

I actually grabbed The Cars one because I have that on LP. I find it easier to critique songs that I already have on CD/LP.

But there's something really screwy with this FLAC file -- Spek is not showing any range at all. And if I look at it in Audacity, the two channels look like mirror images of each other. I then split the track and deleted one of the channels and it sounded much better (except in mono of course).

There's definitely something wrong with your setup - I just don't know what it is exactly.

 

Yes, software can correct those problems in the file. But, the best way to fix the problem is at the source.

 

You should use the MC setting on your preamp for your MC cart. If you don't have one, you should not be using an MC cart.

 

A couple of things depending on your cartridges output you should be adjusting your gain on the phono accordingly. Most phono's only reach max gain at 60db some go to 70db. I would personally set it around 60db for low output cartridges. That's it, you should not be adding more gain it will just introduce low level hum and various other unwanted noise not to mention affecting the dynamic range. Then make sure your recording software is set up to create temporary 32bit float files. Most programs do this by default. I noticed your click repair is pretty high @ 30 that will definitely remove transients degrading the hi-rez file. I would keep it under 10 if possible. Some unwanted noise could be do to not having your ADC buffers set properly which could be introducing digital clicks, pops, and audio drop outs.
I would also check this out http://www.native-instruments.com/knowledge/questions/847/Windows+7+Tuning+Tips+for+Audio+Processing
When recording you want to achieve the lowest latency possible zero would be ideal but depending on your system may not be possible. So experiment with what settings until you reach the point of introducing artifacts and go 1 setting above.
Its always best to apply either gain or normalize which ever you prefer. There are plenty of tips on this site for the ideal settings for those. Hope that helps!

 

I tried that, however, the cart is a low output version and the gain is just too low. So I bought a SUT and went back to the MM input as recommended on another thread.

Is that not right?

 

I use CR 30 on fairly damaged LP's (lots of pops/clicks and surface noise) but I use Reverse and x3 which seems to help keep things fairly balanced. It may remove some of the good stuff, but so far the good definitely outweights the bad. Normally I'd use 10 or 15 on LP's with very light pops/clicks.

Once I get above 30 or 35, I can start to hear some distortion at points, so I normally avoid that if possible.

 

I do not have gain adjustments on the phono stage.....just R LOAD.

I will check out my recording setting some more....there is a ton of stuff to overcome apparently....luckily my PC isn't one of them....SSD drive and 4 GB RAM, Win7.

Thanks for the help.....

 

I'm still getting out of phase mono on these. If you go to the "track" menu in audacity and hit stereo to mono the channels cancel out. I have no idea why this is happening. Even if you had the mono button pushed the channels should not be reversed polarity. Can you post a short clip with no processing?

If you use the preamp main out jacks into the soundcard you should be able to adjust the gain higher with the volume control.

 

It has been proven that even on setting of 1 in CR will remove transients. Of coarse this depends on the music. Classical and Jazz benefit from low settings <10. I run a low setting between 5-10 and then listen to each track in izotope if I detect a click/pop I will use my settings to remove the anomaly.

 

I've been using Clickrepair for six years now constantly and for 99% of the material I've needledropped, I have to go up to about 15-20 before transients get touched at all and even then it's only occasional. Listening to the noise output and adjusting until definite rhythmic patterns in music usually takes 25-30.

Proven by whom? I recall one guy on here a few years back who claimed his sample proved without a doubt that Clickrepair at 1 removed transients but when I listened it was one isolated snap in a bass guitar transient that looked in a spectral view as if there was a bad click that just coincided with the transient.

Anyway, to each his/her own. I've always felt that the benefits of declicking greatly outweigh the loss of some occasional transient. Besides, it's not like they get completely chopped off. Even cranking CR up to 30-40 results in a very slight dulling of extremely sharp transients in most cases.

That underlined point is the key. You really have to check the material. Out of hundred of needledrops I've done in the past six years, I've run into only 2 or 3 cases where CR was problematic and they were always with sawtooth-wave synth lines. The intro to Van Halen's jump comes to mind as well as the Car's Candy-O.

Clickrepair really is the lesser of two evils in almost every case. Enjoy the music.

 

This has been my experience as well - lesser of the two evils. I try not to be a perfectionist or else i'd never get finished with my needle drop project -- I use CR at 10 or 15, I listen, and if i need more I jack it up and re-listen. If I hear an occasional glitch but the big pops and clicks are gone, then it's worth keeping as is imo.

 

There's only one track I've run into where Clickrepair destroyed the track, at any setting I used . . . and that's "Everyday I Love You Less and Less" by Kaiser Chiefs, which has a sawtooth wave synth intro that is comprised of pretty much nothing but transients.

 

The earlier versions of CR did tend to destroy transients if I wasn't careful. The current version is exceptional.

Right now, i'm using anywhere from 10-25 on the declick amount, Wavelet #3, pitch protection, and reverse.

 

OK, here's a comparison. This is the first 60 seconds of "5:15" by The Who, from a beat-up first US pressing of Quadrophenia. This is with my current setup as detailed in previous posts, with the Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge.

No Clickrepair:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qiqm0s

Clickrepair set at 30, reverse, simple:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/jbix70

So compare, contrast, whatever. Oh, and also, please let me know what you think of how the rip sounds!

 

24/96 FLAC. Manowar - "Gates of Valhalla" (60 sec sample). From "Into The Glory Ride".

AT440Mla cart / SL-3200 TT
Furutech GT40 for the phono stage and ADC / Audioquest Forest USB cable
Audacity (under Ubuntu x64 v11) to FLAC.
ClickRepair 30 30 reverse x3

This one is a toughy because 1) the mastering if pretty bad to start with and 2) the record has seen its fair share of use. Still, it turned out alright care of good old ClickRepair again.

I just rebuilt my PC to Ubuntu 12.04 x64, so from here on in it's the new version.....

This is an LP that I'd use declick 30 decrackle 70 reverse wavelet x3. I call this my "damaged LP" setting. There is a chance of a little CR distortion, but it really cleans up most of the surface noise and even some minor IGD. I actually tried it on your original sample.

 

That sounds great! Seriously, love the tone and the soundstage.

 

Well, this is why I tossed up the original sample . . . so people could experiment with it. There's been a lot of talk about ClickRepair in here but no one had posted a "before and after" for the sake of comparison. I literally just grabbed a record I knew was damaged off the shelf and recorded a cut from it for this purpose, so I don't intend for this to be my final version of "5:15" by any means. Thanks for the tip on the setting!

 

Yep, I had a feeling that was the case. With the setting I used, the distortion at around 40 seconds disappeared. Took me a few months to really find a good setting for damaged LP's, but so far the one I described has served me well. I also check the stereo to mono button if it's a mono LP. I do use it only on the really messed up stuff as CR can introduce its own distortion at points. But again the good definitely outweighs the bad imo.

ClickRepair really is a miracle worker, isn't it? I have LP's that, once they go through the drop / CR cleanup process, will likely never get played again as the drop is actually superior.

 

Wow, I tried that setting with my sample, but ran it through Clickrepair with sound turned on so I could audition what it was removing .. . and it definitely removed some of the music. Especially the horns. Eek. But, yes, the crackles are gone, and the door opening and closing during the quiet bit at the beginning is clear as a bell now.

 

Yeah, it's one of those "how much is it worth losing to clean it up?" things. you could also tweak the decrackle to see if that helps a bit. 70 is about the highest I go and even that is very questionable. Sometimes I use this with older recordings that aren't very high quality to begin with, so its doesn't lose too much.

I do use wavelet x3 and reverse as that seems to be more forgiving once you up the declick / decrackle into the 30's or higher.

 

I used to run 20-30 on click repair but when I would compare my rips with doc rob or pbthals I found theirs far for detailed. So when I changed my post procedures and now I find my rips are on par with there's. I just ripped a Canadian press of Talking Heads - Remain In Light. Below are a couple of links to Once In A Lifetime and Seen And Not Seen. Both have a DR of 14 which I set max peaks at 0db and RMS at 17. I find them very detailed and the soundstage is ridiculous! The bass on Once In a Lifetime is tight and the there's a lot going on in that track so many layers of sound! Oh and the clapping on Seen and Not Seen is so detailed it sounds like its penetrating your head! Let me know your thoughts?

https://rapidshare.com/files/3327926538/B1 Once In A Lifetime.flac
https://rapidshare.com/files/3476729130/B3 Seen And Not Seen.flac

 

Something else to keep in mind with Pbthal or Doc Robert is that they're using very expensive cartridges.

Argh, wish I wasn't on my way to work. I'll have to check out your Talking Heads samples tonight. Your description has really whetted my appetite!

 

I don't know of Doc Robert, but I know in pbthal's case, it isn't just the cartridge, but also some very expensive gear such as a >$1000 Trans-Fi Terminator tonearm, and with some extensive cleaning including ultrasonics. These have as big an impact if not moreso than the cartridge (actually my dealer mentioned to me recently something I've also read elsewhere, that the cartridge actually has much less impact on the sound compared to other parts of the system than a lot of us realize, but that's a debate for another time .

Just do the best you can to maximize the needledrops you do with what you have.

 

Very, very good points, Stefan.