Pink Floyd The Wall - CD from Harvest/EMI - Could be best ever.

I found all three of these pressings to sound inferior, for various different reasons, to the Columbia C2K original. The Shine On box is the worst of the lot for me followed by 97 and 2000 which do sound better, but no where near as good as the original Columbia C2K pressing even with its slightly elevated treble frequencies. The C2K never sounds harsh and bright and the bass never sounds bloated.

As Vernon, member PFA, mentions there are at least two different sounding C2K pressings. The original sounds very nice and smooth, but the re-issue sounds a bit unnatural and hard most likely due to use of a digital mastering station is my guess.

Try to get the original C2K as it's very inexpensive or a UK Harvest original (don't recall the catalog number right now). If you are not a fan of an elevated treble response then I can highly recommend the Japanese 2nd pressing catalog #48DP **** or the 1st pressing catalog #50DP 361-2.

 

Sweet! That's the one I have! Discs are DIDP 20204/05.

 

That's the one.

The plastic hub should say:
Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp.

All the early Sony DADC Pink Floyd CD pressings that were done at the Terre Haute, Indiana plant in the mid 1980s are great (some say better than the Japanese pressings). After starting out in Japan in October 1982, Sony used its experience in Japan to build a brand new pressing plant in the U.S. the following year (it was their second plant). The U.S. plant began producing CDs in September 1984, and they did early pressings of Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, The Final Cut, and even the first issue of A Momentary Lapse of Reason.

Vernon Fitch
www.PinkFloydArchives.com home of The Pink Floyd Discographies Page

 

And coincidentally, none of these pressings is what this thread was started to discuss. It's titled, "Pink Floyd The Wall - CD from Harvest/EMI - Could be best ever". I keep seeing this thread rise to the top, expecting questions about my preferred pressing and all I seem to see now is Dave telling everyone to seek the DP50.

BTW Dave, earlier in this thread, you mentioned that you had a Japanese black-faced Harvest. Do you still have it? I would never use "harsh and bright" or "bloated bass" to describe it. Shouldn't it be slotted somewhere in there?

 

The Japan Blackface Harvest is great! Slightly better than the UK Silverface Harvest and way better than the C2K, IMO.

 

I honestly cannot imagine something sounding better than the C2K. I'd love to hear a Harvest now. The C2K really revitalized my interest in The Wall - I'd kind of felt worn out by it, but this breathed a whole new life into it. Amazing how a beautiful mastering can do that.

 

Kevin, you know me I'm not going to sugar coat anything I say about any mastering/pressing differences.

Nothing wrong with the UK made in Japan Harvest pressing as it sounds almost identical to the Japanese 2nd 48DP pressing. I was only speaking of those 3 remasters. I don't have it as it was Darcy's and is long been sold. The 50DP and 48DP pressings are tonally the same. The difference is in the sonic presentation only. The 50DP sounds a little more open and slightly better, and I do mean slightly better, to me.

 

Are you serious? Please don't tell me I should track down all the US originals. Who prefers the original US Dark Side to the CP35? Or the original US Wish You Were Here to the 35DP?

Actually, now that I think of it, I have most of these anyway. Should I really buy a DADC US copy of Meddle? Will it sound better than the CP32 I keep looking for?

 

I got one of these a while back. Kept it for comedy value.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=104252

 

Not I, but hey, that's old news around these parts. In fairness though I haven't heard the USA 2 track pressing of WYWH yet.

Not that I've heard so far.

 

To chime in late - I missed the original start of this thread last year - and nonetheless answer your original question I happen to have hunted down quite a few different Wall-masterings now:

Harvest: 1. BF JPN (no UPC), 2. SF UK (no UPC), 3. BF WG (w/ UPC)
Columbia: 4. US C2K 36183 (w/ UPC), 5. SF CDN C2K 36183 (w/ UPC)
6. MFSL
7. Doug Sax Remaster

and of all I'd argue the Harvest-family masterings sound the most naturally, apear really analogue, if you will - with great dynamics... and without the pop-issue in "Comfortably numb" as in the Columbia-family.

Inside the Harvest-family, the differences are more subtle; especially between UK & WG. Both have relatively high peak levels - but without clipping or so. Eventually, I'd choose BF JPN because the relatively low peak level really allow you to jack the volume up quite high without the sound/music falling apart (a similar experience as when you compare those three pressings for DSOTM). IMHO

 

I got this puppy recently - it looks great alongside my blackface DSOTM, Meddle, About Face, and WYWH

-s1m0n-

 

I would wager that the only difference between the 3rd and 4th issues, as you refer to them, is in the position of a few track starts. Here is the EAC data:

50DP - Disc 1: 96.8 / 78.7 / 87.4 / 100 / 83.2 / 100 / 48.0 / 60.8 / 100 / 100 / 86.1 / 100 / 25.5
US 4th - Disc 1: 96.8 / 78.7 / 87.4 / 100 / 83.2 / 100 / 48.0 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 86.1 / 100 / 26.3

50DP - Disc 2: 85.4 / 63.3 / 72.8 / 44.7 / 100 / 94.9 / 72.6 / 100 / 100 / 94.9 / 100 / 79.2 / 15.7
US 4th - Disc 2: 85.4 / 63.3 / 72.8 / 44.7 / 100 / 94.9 / 72.6 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 15.5 / 79.2 / 15.7

And here is track timing information for Disc 1 of the US 4th pressing (in h:mm:ss.ff):

Start time ~~~ Duration

0:00:00.00 ~~ 0:03:19.20
0:03:19.20 ~~ 0:02:29.67
0:05:49.12 ~~ 0:03:10.60
0:08:59.72 ~~ 0:01:49.70
0:10:49.67 ~~ 0:04:01.60
0:14:51.52 ~~ 0:05:34.28
0:20:26.05 ~~ 0:02:49.27
0:23:15.32 ~~ 0:02:08.05
0:25:23.37 ~~ 0:03:31.58
0:28:55.20 ~~ 0:03:35.30
0:32:30.50 ~~ 0:04:16.40
0:36:47.15 ~~ 0:01:14.52
0:38:01.67 ~~ 0:01:17.30

I bet if someone posts the 50DP or 3rd US timings that they will vary slightly where the EAC levels differ, and those spots will likely be where the sound effects sections are between tracks.

 

Yup, it's good for your amp and speakers to be able to get that volume knob past 12 o'clock There's something about running a system at 80% full power that makes me smile I can only compare it to a guitar tube amp switched to 11. WOW

 

When I said the original WYWH I meant a 5 track with Made in the USA on the inner plastic ring. As far as I know, there was no WYWH 2 track made in the US, just one made in Japan FOR the US.

 

Darren, the credits for that go to yourself - it was you who introduced me to the apparently slight but eventually quite striking differences of BF and SF DSOTM early 2007 - maybe you remember. You really opened my ears, so to speak, by quoting one or two instances "Money" to concentrate on - and that really convinced me in the end

 

Actually, I found, there's a similar example for "The Wall". I once did a shoot-out between SF Harvest and the Doug-Sax-remaster using "Run like hell": When I played the Doug Sax remaster and the guitar riff started, for the first time ever I could understand what people meant when they stated "this mastering made my ears bleed". The guitar sound was so harsh and shrill that I just had to decrease loudness (at least on my system)... and when the voice comes in after a minute or so it just doesn't sound nice either. Never before I noticed such a striking difference between two masterings.

I haven't done a similar shoot-out with that between SF & BF Harvest but I'd reckon that could be similarly revealing.

 

My favourite is also the Japan Black Face. It craps on the later silver Face!

I have not heard the 50DP, but I do not like the US columbia's - they just sound wrong.

The Sax remaster is typical of early remasters - evidence of EQ and compression (without slamming it) to bring out detail on cheap systems and make it sound "improved".

 

M,I had no idea anyone actually read my posts
Of course, I do remember, and it's great when the penny drops like that isn't it?

 

The "Harvest" DSOTM is what I made my own remaster from. There were still master tape issues that were not addressed on the "Harvest" CD. I took care of them. NOW I have the best DSOTM!

 

Here is track timing information for Disc 1 of the US 3rd pressing:

Track | Start | Length |
----------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 3:19.42 |
2 | 3:19.42 | 2:29.68 |
3 | 5:49.35 | 3:10.60 |
4 | 9:00.20 | 1:51.07 |
5 | 10:51.27 | 4:00.55 |
6 | 14:52.07 | 5:33.53 |
7 | 20:25.60 | 2:49.70 |
8 | 23:15.55 | 2:07.12 |
9 | 25:22.67 | 3:33.05 |
10 | 28:55.72 | 3:34.53 |
11 | 32:30.50 | 4:16.57 |
12 | 36:47.32 | 1:17.40 |
13 | 38:04.72 | 1:14.48 |


You are correct that one of the differences between the two issues is track starting and ending times. But the fact that there are different track starts also confirms a different mastering. The only way to change track start and end times is by creating a different master.

However, the differences between the two masterings are slight. Columbia had a habit of making subtle mastering changes between the releases of certain CDs and this certainly is one of them.

Vernon Fitch
www.PinkFloydArchives.com
home of The Pink Floyd Discographies Page

 

You have to be careful with the use of the terms mastering and master here. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on where you sit in the recording world hierarchy), it is possible for pressing plants to change the PQ code (the sub-code data that indicates track starts, etc.) for a disc. Although the audio file delivered is supposed to be considered a 'locked' master, replicators have the capability of changing the PQ without changing the audio (those who use EAC may be familiar with editing the CUE sheet).

So, while they will have created new glass masters to make the 4th version, the audio it contains (and thus the audio mastering) is the same. Anyone who wants to hear the audio mastering used on the 50DP can buy any of the alternatives that have been identified, including the readily available 4th US pressing.

(For those wondering why a replicator would be allowed to do this, it comes down to cost. Imagine Mr. Big-name Producer has just sent in the masters for a new album. At the 11th hour, with the presses ready to roll, someone discovers that the track starts are in the wrong place. Now, you could halt production, and await a new master from the producer, or you could simply adjust the PQ at the plant based on a revised timing sheet. Which do you think Mr. Big-shot Record Executive will go for?)

We have found several instances in the Genesis early CD thread where the same audio has been used with different PQ codes (we even found two Japanese Black Triangles of the same title that differ only in the track start position for the last song!).

 

Not to threat crap but I personally think this is the single most overrated album in the Waters version of the band (OK, DSOTM is close as well). It's my least favorite Waters led album.

That said, way back when I bought the Mofi and while it certainly isn't the best out there it sounded pretty darn good for the few tracks that I love from this album.

To me it's more concept and less about the music.

 

Indeed it is - an probably one of the most worthwile reasons to be around here, IMHO