Pink Floyd The Wall - CD from Harvest/EMI - Could be best ever.

Dave, Can you tell me which C2K-36183 this is for? Country and description of the disc? Actually, if you have editing rights in this forum, you can just modify my post to include more information for your version. Right now it's the one listed as C2K-36183 Country ???

I put together all the posted peak levels and CRCs where available and hope to make it easier for people to tell which masterings are the same. I've combined the results from the other Wall thread that was also updated with some EAC values.

Here's how it looks, so far (Disc 1 only, since that what most people posted):

Code:

                Black-faced             Hub Matrix:        CDP 746036 2 4:1:14     C2K-36183               Black-faced Harvest     
                C2K-36183               CK-36185           EMI SWINDON                                     CDS 7 460368    
                                        1A4 6Y                                        
Country         Canada                  Japan              UK                      ???                     Japan   
                                                                                
Disc 1          Peak      CRC           Peak    CRC        Peak      CRC           Peak      CRC           Peak      CRC    
Track   1       94.6    C2624A4E        96.8    n/a        100     6B3AC8A4        96.8    EBE1DE29        53      3C9A47E6
Track   2       76.9    22D914B1        78.7    n/a        78.1    C3F370E5        78.7    DD6332B5        39      236B3781
Track   3       85.4    BF6F7515        87.4    n/a        100     D45AC408        87.4    8F7282D0        53.5    3DDFC6D3
Track   4       97.7    7AFA39E9        100     n/a        100     55578BBB        100     9CFE92DE        57.2    8E2FD84A
Track   5       81.3    59797982        83.2    n/a        94.1    BF0E3B2E        83.2    6399138B        47      A9934850
Track   6       97.7    165F9B10        100     n/a        100     94C748B3        100     DD2F1465        60.9    E9B947DE
Track   7       46.9    AB4AD360        48      n/a        47.7    F64DDEA5        48      740CFC7B        23.8    723DC965
Track   8       59.5    0E78C7B8        60.8    n/a        98.8    D943FEA3        100     9AEB5B8F        49.4    5F707265
Track   9       97.7    FA7553FF        100     n/a        55.5    994225C2        100     92AC2C67        27.7    0D755FAC
Track   10      97.7    2EB97549        100     n/a        100     71A93126        100     74E7618A        55.9    071EA3BD
Track   11      84.2    75E31E6D        86.1    n/a        100     0FA65A36        86.1    8C402B2F        58.2    17908D44
Track   12      97.7    4B2F9C95        100     n/a        100     3F10829A        100     096E19B5        57.6    DE24D827
Track   13      24.9    7195E1F9        26.3    n/a        24      6350E2EC        26.3    578DE126        12      CECC1AB7

 

Please have a look at the EAC levels of
1) Black-faced Harvest CDS 7 460368 Japan
2) CDP 746036 2 4:1:14 EMI SWINDON UK.
Double the values of the first, and you get the values of the second, except that they are limited to 100. I wouldn't be surprised if the second one uses the digital master of the first one with doubled volume.

 

Hi Andrew, here's info and disc 1 EAC data for my Made in Japan black-faced Harvest/EMI "The Wall". Notice the very low level this is mastered at.

Double-CD case ("Patent pending" molded in on the back) has CDS 7 46036 8 on the spine.
First disc labeled CDP 7 46036 2, inner foil marked CDP 46036 2 1B1.
Second disc labeled CDP 7 46037 2, inner foil marked CDP 46037 2 7B1.

Track, Peak, CRC
Track 1, 53.0, 6076C914
Track 2, 39.0, 042C6575
Track 3, 53.5, FD9C2506
Track 4, 57.2, 74067217
Track 5, 47.0, 241913C3
Track 6, 60.9, DCA4901D
Track 7, 23.8, EAF4AC33
Track 8, 49.4, A5BBA89D
Track 9, 27.7, A5BBA89D
Track 10, 55.9, 940567AA
Track 11, 58.2, 2DC0F69E
Track 12, 57.6, E02C88A1
Track 13, 12.0, 3F4EFB47

Edit: Just realized I could scroll across and see your numbers for this release; the numbers don't match mine so I'm double-checking mine. Stand by ...

OK, I just re-ripped (secure mode this time) and got different numbers. It's strange though, my peak values match now but CRCs are different. Anyone care to suggest a reason for the different CRCs?

 

I had The Wall first UK/Holland issue CD and liked it more than the US Columbia CD.

But I never said anything because I thought I was the only one who felt it had more 1st gen master qualities going for it. And everyone else likes the US Columbia first issue best.

 

Andrew, mine is the silver-faced Canadian pressing. I'm not sure which came first though, the silver-faced or the black-faced like Gort Gary owns.

 

Buying advice needed

Dave, this one (see image) has both CK36184 and C2K36183 on the discs. Would it be a good buy? :

"Bought back in the late 80's. Sorry, can't find the country of manufacture anywhere."
Matrix#: C2K36183 1A / CK36184 09 A

Got the seller to email me a photo:
http://hem.bredband.net/gosaknosans/pf.jpg

What's the way to recognise the later "CK-XXXXX pressings" You're referring to?

Andreas, that's an interesting (and quite curious) find You made about double the peakvalues. Don't know what to make of it... Your theory sounds plausible to me.

/Chris

 

I have a black-faced EMI/Harvest UK (made in Japan) version that I bought as an import when it was first released in 1984. I believe this is the first time it was ever put on CD. I also have the silver-on-black EMI, and it seems identical, and is the finest sounding version on CD that I've ever heard, volume level not withstanding. Both of the Harvest UK and Columbia US first pressings of the LP were mastered by Doug Sax at the Mastering Lab. Should be the same stampers for both.
I have the Japan CBS/Sony 1st press that is highly regarded, but I think the UK and US LP's kill it, personally.

 

I believe the CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check) is calculated by taking every bit into account, so therefore the CRC would be different with one single bit of difference between two files (or two readings with different results for one and the same file). Your disc may have some small errors which were corrected in Secure mode, thus producing slightly different files.

For more info (really technical...):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check

 

Take care with these comparisons - some of the peak level differences between versions may be due to different track indexing points - this has varied a lot over the years - e.g. track 8 and 9 in Andrew's post #51.
The Capitol 2000 version has lots of 100% peaks in the log - maximized a little I suspect.

 

That looks like the U.S. C2K version. Early pressing, not the later with different mastering.

 

Chris, yes that's the set I like so far.

I always just look at the catalog number on the spine of the case/artwork.

 

Just to add some more info to these threads, here are two eac logs for two seperate vesions of WYWH. The first one was posted by Dave:

Here's the C2K-36183

Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track01.wav

Peak level 96.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC EBE1DE29
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track02.wav

Peak level 78.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC DD6332B5
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track03.wav

Peak level 87.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8F7282D0
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track04.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 9CFE92DE
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track05.wav

Peak level 83.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 6399138B
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track06.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC DD2F1465
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track07.wav

Peak level 48.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 740CFC7B
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track08.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 9AEB5B8F
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track09.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 92AC2C67
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track10.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 74E7618A
Copy OK

Track 11
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track11.wav

Peak level 86.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8C402B2F
Copy OK

Track 12
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track12.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC 096E19B5
Copy OK

Track 13
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track13.wav

Peak level 26.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 578DE126
Copy OK


The Next log file is from my 48DP 5007~8 Made In Japan. With only a couple of exceptions, they seems to match. I think some of the differences may have to do with the differnet start/stop times on some of the tracks. My disc, which can be found in this picture also contains pre-emphasis as confirmned with EAC.

The Wall 48DP


EAC extraction logfile from 20. May 2006, 23:45 for CD
Pink Floyd / The Wall (Disc 1)

Used drive : _NEC DVD_RW ND-3550A Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000


Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\01 - In The Flesh .wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00

Peak level 96.8 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC ED5C1E52
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\02 - The Thin Ice.wav

Peak level 78.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 16D915B5
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\03 - Another Brick In The Wall (Part I).wav

Peak level 87.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC BAB5182B
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\04 - The Happiest Days Of Our Lives.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 8989ECFC
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\05 - Another Brick In The Wall (Part II).wav

Peak level 83.2 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 7A9BC72A
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\06 - Mother.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC FF0E1D4C
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\07 - Goodbye Blue Sky.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.90

Peak level 48.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC A2D1F6B8
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\08 - Empty Spaces.wav

Peak level 60.8 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 3B53A422
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\09 - Young Lust.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 0DF248D3
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\10 - One Of My Turns.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 777780E1
Copy OK

Track 11
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\11 - Don't Leave Me Now.wav

Peak level 86.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 31B8E77F
Copy OK

Track 12
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\12 - Another Brick In The Wall (Part III).wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 69DFD7ED
Copy OK

Track 13
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\FLOYD\13 - Goodbye Cruel World.wav

Peak level 25.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC DDB70010
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

 

Hmm, interesting how all tracks match except for 8 and 13 with the C2K being nearly double the peak level in both tracks. Same source with gain on these two you think?

 

Dave, glad to see you are finally able to give this one a good listen.

What do you make of the "Comfortably Numb" track?

 

Wow, I used to have all the Japan/UK 80's issued CD's of Pink Floyd and got rid of them when the new remasters came out, out of blind faith to the remaster thing. I remember liking The Wall in particular. Wish that I had kept these and many others.

 

Of course I meant to say two eac logs for The Wall. That's what I get for posting right before bedtime!

 

So was any consensus ever reached as to which was the preferred CD between the Harvest and the C2K? Dave, have you gotten your CD player back from the shop?

 

I was thinking about the same thing this morning

 

No, not yet I'm afraid.

 

Also, wasn't it basically established that the Harvest Japan and the Harvest UK have different masterings? Does this mean that if Dave listens to his Harvest Japan that he still needs to hear the UK?

 

Probably wouldn't hurt. I'll be shooting out the Japan Harvest against the C2K Canadian and the Japan CBS/Sony 48DP 2nd pressing.

 

Aren't the 48DP and C2K identical?

BTW, is the UK Harvest pressing still in print? I think I saw a sealed copy today here in Delhi. It was manufactured in the UK and said Harvest/EMI.

 

I'm fairly certain it's out of print. The new remaster has something to do with Harvest, maybe it's a copy of that made in the UK.

 

You're correct, the Aussie one shown here is a Harvest remaster;

http://pinkfloydcdscanz.bizland.com/WALL/Australia8312432disc1.html

 

According to taxman150 yes they are, but I'm just kind of a got to hear it for myself kind of guy. What I'd like to do in reality is have all of these early masterings here at once for a complete once and for all shoot-out. I don't know of anyone except taxman who has the Japanese 1st pressing and I can understand his, or anyone's for that matter, reluctance to loan it to me. The likelihood of me finding my own copy is almost none as I've only ever seen it twice on eBay in 6 years. The final bid was, well, er, ah