Pink Floyd Sax Remasters not remastered in Europe - my Empirical Analysis

I see your point (about the fake remastering), but compared to the original WG/Japan Harvest CD, the European "remaster" has the levels shifted (increased) to get to 100%, but without using any compression. You could argue that it is a remastered version, but it uses the original analog to digital files/transfers as the source (this is, for example, what was done with the Led Zeppelin "Mothership" compilation, but they also changed EQ for that one).

Anyhow, maybe someone was actually listening to the different versions and decided to put out the better sounding one for the "remastered" CD. They did the same thing for "Animals" as well, IMHO (= putting out the better sounding old mastering on the "remaster").

 

Unfortunately the didn't do the same for "The Wall" and presumably decided to tweak the Doug Sax.
In my humble opinion "Meddle" and "The Wall" are superior in their unremastered form, whilst there's no CD version of "Animals" which keeps me satisfied: the old Japanese mastering sound way too "airy", the European version is too murky (even compared to the vinyl, at least the 2U/2U), the Doug Sax sounds too bright (and the current Capitol release is even severely peak limited). Who knows if James Guthrie will do it "right" at some point.
So I'm in the process of getting the currently available US versions of "Dark Side Of The Moon", "Wish You Were Here" and "Obscured by Clouds" but I'll keep and treasure my european copies of "Meddle" and "Animals".

 

I recently picked up the Japanese "mini-LP" edition of The Wall (TOCP-65742/43) and it boasts a 1994 remastering credit (by Doug Sax, supervised by James Guthrie). Is this different to the 1992 "Shine On" box remaster, or did they just change the date? If it IS different, how so? Is one remaster "better" or prefered to the other?

 

Checking the Vernon's PFA site, the TOCP-65742/43 should have the exact same mastering as the Capitol 2004 issue and current Capitol 2010 reissue (and also the early Columbia CK 68755 / CK 68756), mastered by Doug Sax with peak levels:

Disc 1: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 54.4 / 62.0 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 30.6
Disc 2: 100 / 75.6 / 69.7 / 53.8 / 100 / 100 / 84.2 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 19.4 / 100 / 17.0

Probably it's the same mastering that's in the "Shine On" box set, level shifted (although I don't like all the 100's in the peaks, it makes me think it's peak limited, as is the case with Animals). But someone who actually did the comparison hopefully will chime in and confirm this.

 

The Euro remaster of The Wall keeps me satisfied, and it seems it is prefered by most people around here. I don't think there's any bad versions of that album on CD.

 

Dug up this thread to double-check if the currently available US remasters are Doug Sax jobs. Thats what I gather from what I've read so far. I wanna grab 'em before they're phased out by the upcoming Guthrie remasters.

 

In the USA the available remasters of the classic albums are by Doug Sax with the exception of The Final Cut which is a Guthrie remaster. Dark Side Of The Moon (SACD redbook layer) is by Guthrie as well but the standard version of DSOTM should be still available.

 

So, out of interest, of the three James Guthrie Remasters in "Oh By The Way", who remastered the previous Euro releases? The booklets for 'The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn', 'The Dark Side Of The Moon' and 'The Final Cut' all say Doug Sax. Is this correct?

Also who Remastered the 1997 Mono 'Piper' and 'First 3 Singles' CDs?

podman

 

Hey,

1. I have one of these ....... http://www.pinkfloydcd.com/DARKside/japanTOCP53807.html

Is this the Sax remaster ?

2. What mastering does this edition carry ? ......... http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Moo...=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1305373592&sr=1-1

and is it worth the investment ? Would I be gaining anything ?

Thanks

 

Bump ........

Anyone ?

 

Hi guys! Are these
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1108135
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1108136
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=2424468
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1108462&style=music
real Doug Sax remasters? Thank you

 

Hi.

The Japanes one, I don't know. I don't have any Japan TOCP disc so I can't compare. Maybe in vernon's site?? some of the Jap issues have peak levels listed.

The Amazon one is from 1990, so it's pre-20th anniversary, so pre-remasters. It's probably the Sony(US) mastering, no Doug Sax, no early Japanese.

All Capitol released in 2000-2004 are Sax remasters. The EMI ones are probably not. So, for the data I can see on your links, I'd only bet for sure in Animals (Capitol CD, released in 2000, Sax). WYWH doesn't say the right label, but the release date is the same (April 25, 2000) so it's probably the Capitol one and, if it is, is Sax too. The other 2 state EMI label. EMI EU releases of Meddle and Saucerful aren't Sax remasters.

 

Thank you very much. I'd like to know where I can buy ASOS and Meddle remasters. Can you provide links? I am in central Europe.

 

I don't know. Capitol releases of the Sax remasters of the early floyd albums (Piper to DSOTM) from the 90s are long ago out of print. The 2000-2004 Capitol releases are easier to find, but only cover from WYWH to MLOR. Amazon.com (USA based) is selling EMI versions of Meddle and ASOS (those 2008 releases) because they no longer have Capitol ones.

Probably if you look on ebay. That's were I found my Meddle Sax remaster. My copy of ASOS was sent to me by a friend in the US, who looked for the CD on a used-discs store. If you have a friend on the States maybe he/she can do you that same favor.

Good luck =)

 

Once again: thank you! These PF remasters are horrible mess ): . I'll try ebay.

(Maybe this one http://cgi.ebay.com/PINK-FLOYD-SAUC...=Music_CDs&hash=item43a7117f25#ht_3304wt_1165 )

 

First time I read about this. Is this really true?

This is ridiculous. Record companies are trying to cheat us. Either remasters are badly remastered, they have channels reversed or they aren't remastered at all. I'm starting to get angry

 

That made me angry too. That's why I started this whole research and published my results. I got tired of being taken as a fool by EMI.

I really HOPE that the new line of soon-to-be-released remasters by James Guthrie don't suffer from the same "mistakes".

 

Was the CD layer of Dark Side Of The Moon SACD newly remastered? I'm asking this because I used to have it and the CD "part" of it sounded very similar to 94 EMI remaster

 

They are different:

Doug Sax '93: 67.9 / 69.1 / 76.9 / 75 / 96.8 / 69.6 / 89.3 / 75.7 / 82.5
SACD CD layer: 34.4 / 92.4 / 92.0 / 93.0 / 92.7 / 100 / 84.3 / 100 / 100 / 100

But yes, they are very similar sounding.

 

Are those peak levels? I don't have a program for those but i took a picture of the waveform for track 6 (Money)

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4009/pinkfloydhu.jpg

How does the waveform look in your copy?

Actually this sounds quite bad, i hear little clicking and distortion

 

No worries, just download and install EAC

http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

 

In 2003 both SACD layers, redbook (CD) and DSD, were remastered by James Guthrie.

There is only one CD reissue that used Guthrie's mastering: the 2007-2008 european re-release by EMI. Of course it was mislabelled as "remastered 1993 by Doug Sax". It had the very same artwork than the standard post-1993 releases.


PS: EAC will help you with peak levels, as marcel says.

 

Okay, thanks for the help

I installed EAC and checked the peak levels:
26.7 / 85.3 / 92.0 / 92.4 / 92.7 / 96.7 / 84.3 / 92.7 / 92.4 / 93.2

I bought this cd just a couple of months ago because I was hoping that the 93 remaster would sound less loud and compressed than the CD layer of SACD but actually this sounds muddier and almost as loud as that Maybe this even isn't the old issue released in 93.

 

Could someone told which pressings are the best for each Pink Floyd album. Or should I wait those new remasters?

I tried to search a cd pressing from http://www.pinkfloydarchives.com/ to match my peak levels but didn't find :S

 

It looks like your CD is just level shifted from the SACD CD mastering:

SACD CD layer: 34.4 / 92.4 / 92.0 / 93.0 / 92.7 / 100 / 84.3 / 100 / 100 / 100

yours: ......... 26.7 / 85.3 / 92.0 / 92.4 / 92.7 / 96.7 / 84.3 / 92.7 / 92.4 / 93.2

... with various amounts of shifts between songs. If you could post a sample, say the 1st 2 min from the very 1st song, I could tell you for sure.

I can try to look at the waveform you posted tonight though 1st.