Pink Floyd Sax Remasters not remastered in Europe - my Empirical Analysis

I though the Message in a Box set didn't have much compression at all?

Still, you do have a point.

 

Not that many, really.

For Animals there are only three masterings, in 25 years of it being in print on CD. The original UK Harvest (still in print) the original Sony Japan, and the US Sax re-master.

The Austrian pressings were made in the Sony plant, and are not the original European releases, and actually I don't think they were sold in Europe at all. The only ones I've seen are CBS label, which were sold in non-European or US markets.

The Austrian Sony CBS Animals pressings I've tested use the same mastering as the original Sony pressed Japan CBS and the Japan for US Columbia.

Quite possible the two Animals discs you have are digitally identical.

 

Sorry,no capabilities to present samples or a comparison due to having sold the "old ones" in the meantime.

I am still quite convinced that the Sony Japan in the MHCP series are remasters AND remixes!

 

You could provide samples of just the "re-mixes" as most folks in this thread will have the standard mixes.

Just double checked A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell and there are standard US and Japan releases where the peak levels match the "Sony Direct" MHCP versions exactly. For AMLoR it's the same as the Sax re-master, for TDB same as the initial CD release.

 

It would be really interesting to see some samples of those "remixes". As foobar2000 says, most of us have other versions of the albums so we could compare.

Keep in mind that slight changes in sound or EQ levels might sound as a new mastering or a new mix, so it wolud be really nice to be able to compare.

Also, it would be really weird that Floyd released new mixes without any promotion and only for Japan... but if we can compare, we can solve this mistery

cheers!

 

What is the easiest way to obtain the Sax remaster of A Saucerful Of Secrets if one is located in Germany?

 

Andreas, I have bought my copy in the U.S., and you can order it online from one of the retailers who do ship internationally, like CD Universe or Barnes & Noble.

At Barnes & Noble, you can usually find a 15% off coupon (right now there is one A9N8U4H). With that coupon, the total at B&N comes out to $19.75 incl. shipping to Germany. That is a little over 14 Euros, not too bad considering the shipping to Germany.

Or you can use CD Universe, the total comes out to $19.38, even slightly better, also including shipping.

 

You could also look for a used Euro copy from the Shine On boxset, if you don't mind the cropped artwork. I'm not 100% positive, but I think that's a level-shifted Sax re-master.

US Capitol Catalog number is: CDP-0777-7-46383-2-6 for the current Sax.
DON'T get Capitol CDP-7-46383-2 that's the old Euro EMI mastering.
Japan Toshiba TOCP-8253 should also be the Sax re-master.

 

Not sure if this is of any help, but the bulk of the Floyd catalogue is getting a limited release in Japan in December at a decent price. I grabbed a handful of these a little over a year ago, the last re-press, and I'm quite happy that I don't have to worry about searching for particular Floyd pressings anymore. They sound wonderful. I know it may not mean much, but all the CDs I have from this re-press carry a Doug Sax mastering credit - Digital Remasters 1992 / 1994 EMI Records LTD. These links show the series I have and the TOCP cat. numbers match the upcoming December releases, so it appears to be a straight repress of these discs in December ........

http://www.pinkfloydcd.com/Meddle/japanTOCP53806.html

http://www.pinkfloydcd.com/DARKside/japanTOCP53807.html

http://www.pinkfloydcd.com/WYWH/japanTOCP53808.html

http://www.pinkfloydcd.com/Animals/japanTOCP53809.html

http://www.pinkfloydcd.com/WALL/japanTOCP5381011disc1.html

http://www.pinkfloydcd.com/WALL/japanTOCP5381011disc2.html

 

The European versions have that too, only some of them retain the original Euro mastering, and do not have the Doug Sax re-masters, no matter what the credits say. That's the point of this thread.

Obviously we won't know if these new Japan releases will be the same, but I double checked and the catalog numbers haven’t changed. If the new ones are the same, then the first three you link to are the Sax re-masters. DSotM being the older Sax, not the current James Guthrie re-master.

Animals TOCP-53809 is the original UK Harvest/EMI mastering from the mid-80's, not the Sax re-master.

The Wall TOCP-53810/11 is the secret re-master from the Oh by the Way Boxset, which might be a tweaked version of the Sax re-master, but has a different EQ compared to the in-print US Sax re-master.

 

All my Floyd cds are from the U.S. 92 - 94 remastered series. How can I tell if the Columbia titles are the Sax remastered. Hope this is clear enough for an answer. Sorry about that but in checking my Columbia discs are actually 1997 issues.

 

Animals TOCP-53809 is the original UK Harvest/EMI mastering from the mid-80's, not the Sax re-master.

The Wall TOCP-53810/11 is the secret re-master from the Oh by the Way Boxset, which might be a tweaked version of the Sax re-master, but has a different EQ compared to the in-print US Sax re-master.

Are their threads anywhere that confirm this ? Not doubting it, just want to find out more

 

You are not alone!

 

You just can't trust anyone anymore!

Maybe the 40th anniversary of Dark Side of the Moon will bring about that reissue series Mason hinted, apparently. If it's done well, we can all sleep at night again.

 

Thank you.
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1108462
Would it be likely that this is the Sax remaster or do I need to gamble?

 

Andreas, the one at CD Universe says "EMI Europe Generic" in the details description.

Barnes & Noble lists to different version, one of them the EMI Europe (which you don't want) and the other the US Capitol (new version, the one you want).

I bought my copy from Barnes & Noble (in the actual store) and now they carry the right product. I would spend the 50 cents extra to be safe.

 

All the US made CDs that say they are re-mastered in the 90's should in fact be re-mastered. Only exception would be the Oh by the Way boxset, which has the Euro versions even if sold in the US.

 

Animals

TOCP-53809
Toshiba-EMI Records - 9th issue
Release Date: September 6, 2006
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DJaCDPF.htm#Anim9
Track Peak Levels: 48.3 / 82.7 / 64.8 / 75.7 / 32.4

TOCP-53809
EMI Music Japan, Inc. - 11th issue
Release Date: December 16, 2009
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DJaCDPF.htm#Anim11
Track Peak Levels: 48.3 / 82.7 / 64.8 / 75.7 / 32.4

CDP 7 46128 2
Harvest Records - 1st U.K. issue
Release Information: Original U.K. issue (198?)
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DUKCDPF.htm#Anim1
Track Peak Levels: 48.3 / 82.7 / 64.8 / 75.7 / 32.4

7243 8 29748 2 6
EMI Records 2009 issue
Release Date: January 2009
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DEUCDPF.htm#Anim09
Track Peak Levels: 48.3 / 82.7 / 64.8 / 75.7 / 32.4


The correct Sax re-master peaks are: 53.8 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 56.7

As far as I can tell this has only ever been released on US Columbia - CK-68521 in 1997 and US Capitol - CDP-7243-8-29748-2-6 in 2000.


The original Japan 32DP 360 is: 60.2 / 80.4 / 71.4 / 74.6 / 41.9

This mastering was in print in Japan and the US until 00/97. The US went to Sax, Japan reverted to the Euro original.

 

The Wall

TOCP-53810 / 11
Toshiba-EMI Records - 8th issue
Release Date: September 6, 2006
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DJaCDPF.htm#Wall8
Disc 1: 97.2 / 87.2 / 95.3 / 97.2 / 93.6 / 93.8 / 47.9 / 57.6 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 93.5 / 97.2 / 26.9
Disc 2: 95.0 / 65.9 / 61.9 / 48.8 / 90.2 / 95.4 / 78.8 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 18.7 / 85.7 / 11.5

TOCP-53810 / 11
EMI Music Japan, Inc. - 10th issue
Release Date: December 16, 2009
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DJaCDPF.htm#Wall10
Disc 1: 97.2 / 87.2 / 95.3 / 97.2 / 93.6 / 93.8 / 47.9 / 57.6 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 93.5 / 97.2 / 26.9
Disc 2: 95.0 / 65.9 / 61.9 / 48.8 / 90.2 / 95.4 / 78.8 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 11.5
(not sure if D2 11 & 12 is a missprint?)

7243 8 31243 2 9
EMI Records 1994 remastered issue
Release Date: October 10, 1994
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DEUCDPF.htm#Wall94
Disc 1: 97.2 / 87.2 / 95.3 / 97.2 / 93.6 / 93.8 / 47.9 / 57.6 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 93.5 / 97.2 / 28.1
Disc 2: 95.0 / 65.9 / 61.9 / 48.8 / 90.2 / 95.4 / 78.8 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 18.7 / 85.7 / 11.5

7243 8 31243 2 9
EMI Records 2009 issue
Release Date: January 2009
http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DEUCDPF.htm#Wall09
Disc 1: 97.2 / 87.2 / 95.3 / 97.2 / 93.6 / 93.8 / 47.9 / 57.6 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 93.5 / 97.2 / 28.1
Disc 2: 95.0 / 65.9 / 61.9 / 48.8 / 90.2 / 95.4 / 78.8 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 18.7 / 85.7 / 11.5


The correct Sax re-master from the US Columbia & Capitol peaks are:
Disc 1: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 54.4 / 62.0 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 30.6
Disc 2: 100 / 75.6 / 69.7 / 53.8 / 100 / 100 / 84.2 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 19.4 / 100 / 17.0

I have tested examples of both Euro and US and they are not a simple level shift. A frequency analysis shows they have a slightly different EQ when compared to each other. They are much closer to each other then they are to the original Euro and Japan 80's masters. My guess (and it is only that) is that the current Euro is a tweaked version of the Sax re-master. Who did this, and why, I have no idea.

 

Pink Floyd mastering questions. EAC numbers vs "mastering".

For Atom Heart Mother:

85.2 / 59.2 / 90.1 / 66.1 / 78.2 1st Japan = WG
83.2 / 57.8 / 88.1 / 64.6 / 76.4 1st UK

Are these the same, just level shifted? The multiplier from the 2nd to the 1st is very consistent 1.023/1.024?

For Obscured by Clouds:

59.6 / 95.5 / 66.6 / 98.8 / 90.6 / 100 / 100 / 94.5 / 73.3 / 94.9 1st US, Japan, WG
58.2 / 93.3 / 65.0 / 96.5 / 88.5 / 97.7 / 97.7 / 92.4 / 71.6 / 92.8 original UK

Similar question. The multiplier here is also a very consistent 1.023/1.024.

??

 

I have not done a spectrum analysis on those ones, so I can't say for sure.

It certainly looks like they are all shifted the same way, and by the same amount, so your guess is likely a good one. I wouldn't be 100% confident stating "same mastering" based on just that though. It could be some kind of EQ or treatment that made the levels shift?

On Obscured by Clouds EMI seems to like things to peak at 97.7, and not 100. That could be the reason they shifted it down, if indeed that's all they did.

 

I'd say so. Wish You Were Here has a similar level drop, 100 to 97.7, so it would make sense that the other CDs reflect this decision too.

 

Yep, I have tested the 100 vs the 97.7 Euro WYWH and the frequency comparison shows a straight line, meaning no EQ changes, just a level shift. The original of that mastering is the WG which has these peaks: 94.9 / 100 / 95.1 / 90.5 / 88.5 yet still shows the same straight line when compared to the 100 or 97.7.

The mid 80's US and Japan CDs with all five tracks at 100 is not the same as the Euro 100. Very different EQ!

 

Hey foobar2000,

Thank you for your responses and tireless effort, Very much appreciated !!
This thread however has left me totally disillusioned and disappointed that this kind of stuff is pulled on an the unsuspecting consumer. I'm sticking with what I have at present, they sound good to me....... but my head hurts, and I'm back in therapy by the looks.

 

Many people here prefer the original Animals and the current Euro Wall masterings. (The ones you have.) So, I wouldn't sweat it too much. Except for the first two albums none of the Floyd masterings are real dogs anyway.