Pink Floyd Sax Remasters not remastered in Europe - my Empirical Analysis

Sorry, my interest in Floyd falls off rather sharply after The Wall.

A Momentary Lapse of Reason does have a unique set of peaks in the Oh By The Way version:
85.0 - 100 - 99.9 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 59.6 - 100 - 60.4 - 100
I have not done a spectral analysis on any version of this album.

The Division Bell came out in 1994, right when Doug Sax was re-mastering everything. Euro and US versions have slightly different peaks, and my guess is that they are both Sax or maybe Guthrie.

 

Thanks foobar2000!

podman

 

Thanks for the info Foobar2000!! that completes the puzzle and solves the "Wall" mystery (it seems that my conclusions about The Wall were wrong).

Also clarifies where does my copy of DSOTM comes from!!

According to Vernon's database, AMLOR was remastered again in 2005 by James Guthrie and Joel Plante, supposedly because Columbia had lost the 1994 masters, so Capitol had to do it all over again.

 

Interesting. So did this only appear on the Oh by the Way boxset?

I've heard this before about other albums, but it always seems so silly to me. I mean there are (literally) millions of those CDs out there, and all we need is one to make a perfect copy of the data that could then be used to make new CD stampers. They don't need to do it all over just to keep pressing CDs.

 

It is in the "Oh by the Way" box set and in the 2009 US Capitol issue, according to Vernon's database.

Maybe this had to do with legal things. The 1994 remaster was property of Columbia in the USA, and was released by Columbia in 1997 as we know. Considering they lost the original Sax master (probably a property of Pink Floyd Music Ltd), and the only copies available were the CDs (property of Columbia I think), probably Capitol should ask for Columbia's permission to copy one of their CDs.

Or maybe Capitol didn't want to use a 3rd generation copy of the Sax remaster and decided to remaster it again. Even Columbia used an old master (the 1st US mastering) for their 2005 reissue of AMLOR (no matter that the artwork stated it was remastered by Guthrie and Plante, artwork is a mess again) instead of a copy of their 1997 release. So the first release of the Guthrie remastered AMLOR was in the OBTW box.

 

Oh, right. I thought you meant "lost" as in "can't find it in the warehouse" not lost the legal rights.

 

No, that's what exactly I meant. Perhaps I wasn't clear, sorry. Rumour is that Columbia lost (physically lost) the masters of AMLOR. They couldn't find them, so the album had to be remastered again. I'm not sure whether this is true or not, it's more in the rumours camp, but it's the only kind of "explanation" found for the 2005 remaster.

So, my guess:

a) As the Sax master was lost (really lost, wasn't in the warehouse), they chose to make a new remaster instead of using a 2nd or 3rd generation copy to reissue the album.

or...

b) As Columbia had the rights of the copies (actual CDs produced from the master), and Pink Floyd Ltd. couldn't supply them with the original Sax master (lost in the twilight zone of Columbia's warehouse), Capitol chose not to ask for any permission to copy a Columbia-owned CD and made it's own remaster.

I go for a).

cheers

 

That's the part that just doesn't make any sense to me.

A second or third generation copy of the original digital files, or a rip of any one of the millions of CDs, will be exactly the same sonically as whatever was used to manufacture the Columbia CDs. Even the folks that claim identical CD pressings sound different generally agree with that.

What would make sense is if Capitol wanted a new re-master done so that fans will be enticed to buy their new release.

 

Nick Mason has hinted at the back catalogue being released as physical product one more time. Could we have our hopes up that they do it right this time? And maybe some rarities this time around?

 

Whaaaat? Never knew that!

 

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=5242374&postcount=135

 

True. It also doesn't make too much sense to me, but these are the only explanations I can think of.

I can't think of Capitol remastering AMLOR for the sake of it. However, 2007 (the year OBTW box was out) was the 20th anniversary of AMLOR, maybe a good date for an "anniversary" remastering... but there was no advertising campaign, no marketing, no "includes a new 20 years anniversary remaster of AMLOR by James Guthrie!!" sticker on the box... I don't know, seems strange to me...

 

I'd like to point out that IMO the 4 albums released in the "Sony Direct" Series in Japan in 2005,and again in 2008(Momentary Lapse of Reason,Delicate sound of Thunder,Divison Bell,and Pulse,order numbers:MHCP 685,MHCP686/7,MHCP 688 and MHCP689/90 respectively)are not only Remasters,but Remixes as well!!

They certainly are the best(by a considerable margin)sounding versions of these titles,and very much worth seeking out.

 

So if you get the US versions out on the shelves new right now of:
Saucerful...
Meddle
Dark Side...
Wish You...
Animals
The Wall
Final Cut
Momentary ...
you will be getting the Sax remasters or if you get the US "Whats the Deal" box set you get the same Sax masterings?

I was living in Europe at the time the remasters came out in the 90's and thought - great I almost always prefer the European edition of European groups. So I picked these up and never really thought about the US versions. I also have a lot of the Japan for US versions of this catalog including the DSOTM black triangle and blackface harvest both non TO, the 2 track WYWH they all sound good to me actually.

 

Remixes??? Did not know that..


...great, some more CDs to track down

 

Cite, please.

 

The answer is simple:

My ears tell me when comparing earlier/original CDs with those.The 2005 ones not only sound different they sound a lot mor detailed;instruments,voices,sound effects have been rearranged horizontally and vertically across the sound stage.

I should grade my insight that those I have mentioned in my earlier post have been remixed in addition to having been remastered as an "educated guess".There is no(official) source to confirm.

We know by now that these things are done in a clandestine way "in the Floyd camp".

BTW:it should be interesting to find out if "another remaster and/or remix" has been done when the "new batch"(13 CDs)of Floyd titles are released in Japan towards the end of November.

 

Man, I often complain to myself about all the stuff you have to go through to find a decent sounding CD these days, but I feel sorry for those people in Japan who have, like, 10 times as many masterings as we do.

 

Do you have the capability to post samples? I'd be curious to hear what you think are good examples of the differences with AMLOR and TDB.

Sometimes extreme EQ moves can *sound like* a remix, but it's really not.

 

Now, this is really interesting!!!

 

This.

 

The Oh by the Way boxsets (if that's what you mean) were all pressed in Holland by EMI. No matter what market you buy them in, the US included, you get the current European versions.

Check post #23 for which albums are not the Doug Sax versions.

 

Since the early 90's they've been fairly upfront about who's remastering/remixing their albums and when it's done. I highly doubt they would re-mix some of their best selling albums for a limited edition Japan only release, and not tell anybody.

 

Applying compression very often sounds like a remix, because it changes the relative level of varying parts. One example that comes to mind is Police's "Bring on the Night". The beginning on the remastered CD (Message in a Box set) sounds vastly different to the original CD. Maybe this is what you are hearing. I strongly doubt that there was an actual remix done from the multitracks.

 

First, the OP did a great job. It is just this sort of detective work that makes the Forum such a must.

Here's what I discovered recently: I have what I believe are orig. Austrian pressings of Animals and The Wall. I bought these to replace my orig. U.S. Columbia CD's (made in JAPAN) of these 2 titles. I expected the Austrian discs to sound better. Why? For no other reason than I have had really good luck with Austrian CD's. However, the US market made in JAPAN origs. beat them easily. Glad I held onto the JPN. made ones. Interesting. So many masterings of Floyd.