Ornette Coleman The Shape Of Jazz To Come - 2010 WB/Rhino LP Reissue

Hey SergioRZ, I just played your YouTube video. Well done for making that. I can certainly hear the noise you're talking about and I'd go with yasujiro in saying it sounds like non-fill. If you locate the defect and look closely you may be able to confirm this if you can see a patch of beading or stitching in the groove at the relevant point(s). I sometimes think the outside edge is more prone to non-fill because, when the LP is being pressed, the molten vinyl has further to go to get there but I don't know whether that's really so. It's also true that non-fill can occur anywhere.

I think I'm going to get this LP!

Edit: I certainly wouldn't disagree with carledwards's very sensible suggestions either.

 

The sax sounds fuller on this mastering than the previous 180gm -thanks for posting that.

I wish Rhino would offer 24/96 files of this on their site and save us from their poor vinyl QC.

 

I might try the European pressing...I remember reading that Rhino actually send the "tools" (made in the USA, cut by Bernie Grundman) to their European partner for pressing, so the mastering and production method should be exactly the same for US and EU pressings of this series. Is this correct?

 

You should not have to pay for another if it is a defect - try contacting Rhino directly - they often are forthcoming

 

I'm about to return both copies (first and replacement) for a full refund, including return shipping.

For those who have bought the Rhino US (RTI) release, and don't have any pressing problems with their copies, where did you buy it? Any major online store that I can use? Maybe Acoustic Sounds?

I would prefer to get the US release instead of the one made in EU... as long as the pressing is good.

 

Just out of curiosity... any particular reason why? The stampers are identical and if you're getting a better pressing quality from the EU pressing plant (Pallas?), and the price is lower, I don't see an obvious reason to go on looking for a defect-free US one.

I ask as someone about to buy the EU pressing.

 

Usually I prefer to get the US release when the artist is from the US.

Also, the way I see it, the original reissue is from Rhino US, made in the USA, and the one made in EU is just the european version of that original release. I know, it's a bit silly because we are talking about reissues, but still, having the US reissue feels right to me.

Even though we can be 99% sure based on past experience that Rhino US is sending the same stampers for pressing in Europe, the truth is I'm not 100% sure that it is the case with this release.

Finally, the price is not much different... If I buy locally it will cost me 29 Euros, that is only around $3 USD less than the total cost of ordering from the USA.

But of course... you are probably right about this, it isn't worth it to keep searching and taking chances with US versions.

 

Acoustic Sounds lists this LP as "Back Ordered"... it's been like that for a long time now.

Actually this LP is not easy to find online anymore... Maybe Rhino realized there was a problem with this release and decided to fix it?

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B003UCPE38/sr=1-2/qid=1291405951/ref=olp_tab_new?ie=UTF8&coliid=&me=&qid=1291405951&sr=1-2&seller=&colid=&condition=new
http://www.tower.com/shape-jazz-come-ornette-coleman-vinyl/wapi/116809466
http://diskunion.net/portal/ct/detail/XATW-00120729

 

Sorry, I missed this reply.

It is a bit illogical but I know how you feel because I feel that way a bit too. However I'm confident the stampers are identical so I tend to go with the European pressing because it's usually far cheaper, although not so much in this case. A lot of the Warner Rhinos go for silly prices in the UK - for example Manassas is only £11.99 for a DOUBLE LP on Amazon.co.uk with free delivery! Crazy for a pressing of this quality.

The Ornette Coleman is not so cheap but is going for £18.99 on Amazon.co.uk with free delivery in the UK. I'm going to order it this side of Christmas.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003UCPE38/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

 

Just listened to my copy last night and it has similar defects as yours. My record has 4 of the glitches/buzzes during Lonely Woman. Too bad because the rest of the record plays perfectly. This reissue does sound stellar.

I better find my receipt now...

 

I bought this LP at Newbury Comics in Boston yesterday and was fortunate enough to get a "good" copy: sounds fantastic, with no glitches on "Lonely Woman."

I took the plunge on this despite reports of problems because I have been hugely impressed with Rhino's latest Atlantic reissue series (titles from Coltrane, Ray Charles and this Ornette). Everything about them (mastering, pressing, packaging) is stellar. I compared Doug Sax's new mastering of "The Great Ray Charles" versus a green label original, and the reissue is tonally almost identical but with quieter, deeper backgrounds and a bit more extension at both the top and bottom ends.

Hopefully, the pressing defects reported for "Shape of Jazz" are more the exception than the rule. Best of luck.

 

Received my "Made in EU" copy today (after returning my two US made faulty copies).

This one does not have the same pressing problems, it plays fine.

LP is not as thick or as heavy as the US version. Sleeve (cover) is much thinner and lighter, with a paper inner. This European version looks and feels much cheaper.

The sound... well, hard to tell with a direct A/B comparison, but from what I remember the US LP's sounded a little better, meatier bass, overall fuller sound, and also I remember more "air" around the cymbals, like they just floated off the speakers and this EU LP doesn't do that as well.

This was the matrix on the US LP's:

R1-1317-A 19361.1(3) BG

This is the matrix on the EU LP:

R1-1317-A 19361.1(3) BG BA 160099-01 A1


I'll still try to find a good US LP...

 

My EU copy just arrived - and it's even worse than your US copy. Much worse. Towards the end of track one side one there are three buzzes followed by three scrunches, and the buzzes and/or scrunches keep coming back in patches intermittently throughout the rest of side one. (Side two is fine.) There must be at least 30 of them. It's a pity because the pressing looks and sounds really first class until you reach the defects.

I got it from Amazon.co.uk and have asked for a replacement. We'll see if the next one is any better.

BTW I was interested to see they have dropped the "Back to Vinyl" slogan from this EU issue. I wonder if they have dropped it for good to avoid having their LPs confused with Universal's Back to Black series.

 

I saw this at the local HMV for $23.00 and went for it - glad I did. This is the US (BG/RTI) version. It is flat, quiet and certainly more dynamic than their last 180gm effort.

 

The first disc I got from the amazon.de Marketplace had some of the same problems described here, two faint buzzes on "Focus on Sanity", as well as some distortion at the end of side 1. Got a replacement and the new one's a keeper. The sound is indeed stellar.

But I'm not that impressed with the packaging. It's very cheap thin cardboard and the proportions of the cover are vertically distorted, that means Ornette's head and the typography is taller than it should be. I compared this to other images I could find of this title, and my cover is indeed elongated. (For both copies I have.) How did this happen? Is this also true of the U.S. pressing? (The other Rhino re-issue I have, Coltrane Jazz, is much better packaging. Thick carboard and laminated cover, with paste-over back cover.)

 

I just got a copy that has about 15 of these "buzzes" on side 2. So frustrating... It sounds great otherwise though.

 

Sorry for the off-topic.

Are there the US RL or GP cut of this album? If there are, how good do they sound?

 

I bought the EU pressing today, it sounds perfect, no defect, flat and quiet.

 

I have seen and heard GP pressings. They seem much harder to find then Coltrane titles. Sonically, they are comparable in comparison to original pressings. With the GP pressings, the music is all there and well presented but it lacks some of the punch of the original pressings.

 

I just bought this record the other day (I found it a local store here in Toronto for $19.99) and was horrified to hear a few instances of loud buzzing on "Lonely Woman", when I sat down to listen to it at home. The buzzes occurred at a few additional points on side one in particular.

As it sounded like the kind of buzzing you get when you are setting up a new cartridge with a test LP I wondered if that could be the problem. I've never had this sort of problem on any other record I own. Just to be certain, I double checked my alignment, VTF, etc. and everything is as it should be, as far as I can tell.

Then I came on here and was relieved to see that others have had this problem, too.

Has anyone had any luck dealing with Rhino directly? The shop I bought mine from doesn't typically do returns on vinyl.

It's a shame because, as others have said, the record sounds terrific otherwise.

 

For what it's worth, an update on my situation:

I informed Rhino of the issue and was forwarded to "Dr. Rhino". I explained the situation and have heard nothing back.

In the meantime, I purchased another copy of the same 2010 Rhino re-issue pressed at RTI and it's flawless.

On the one hand, I'm very pleased to have a wonderful sounding copy of the record, of course.

On the other hand, I'm annoyed because the original copy I bought evidently has a serious pressing defect and it seems this is something Rhino ought to put right.

Alas...

 

Regarding what I said about the packaging of the E.U. version: I too contacted Dr. Rhino and asked for replacement packaging arguing that I paid the full price here in Europe and expect to get the same quality (as the sticker on the cover indeed said "replicated to the finest detail"). A few weeks later I got in the mail for free the U.S. pressing. Great service from Rhino.

 

Does this Atlantic issue have the same BG mastering as the Rhino?

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/8112/Ornette_Coleman-The_Shape_Of_Jazz_To_Come-Vinyl_Record

 

Yes, that is the latest issue, and it is of significantly higher quality than the previous (less expensive) Rhino version.