OPPO's BDP-80 Blu-ray/SACD/DVD-A player - coming 1/25/10!

Same problem here. But maybe this one will also be available from crtprojectors or livingcinema.

 

This is not my experience. Often DSD to PCM conversion sounds quite terrible in my experience.

 

Have you heard it on the OPPO BDP-83/80?

 

I guess Oppo can just do no wrong.

 

Or, those who own and/or have heard the units could be clearing up confusion, or relating characteristics based on their observations

 

The problem in my view with the oppo 80 is sacd played in PCM out of the analogs, that ruins it for me. Shame its a great bargain.

 

It's all in the implementation. The Playback Design converts CDs to double DSD. The APL converts SACD to high-rate PCM. I think it can be done. I've not heard the Oppo.

 

I have the Esoteric sa50 and sacd in native DSD is imperitive, and playing cds in DSD is not as good as a highend upscale implimentation. In other words SACD in DSD and CD in native 44/16 or any multiple of said numbers, thats it their is no better way! I think...John M.

 

Any other player, and DSD-to-PCM conversion is a crime, but with the Oppo, it's a non-issue. This is the first player I have seen not criticized for this unnecessary conversion. It is unnecessary.

If SACD sounds great even after PCM conversion, how might it sound through the Oppo if the conversion were not performed? We will never know, and it's not just a fair question. It's an imperative.

There definitely is a can-do-no-wrong mentality about Oppo players here.

 

Right on. John M.

 

The Oppo BD-80 is built to a price point. So is the Esoteric sa50, but they are not built to the same price point. Not even close. The question is not whether it is better to convert DSD to PCM or vice versa, but whether converting DSD to PCM is a sensible design choice at the $300 asking price.

Criticizing Oppo for making design choices that allow it to meet a $300 price point makes as much sense as criticizing the Esoteric sa50 for not playing BluRay discs.

 

It's a $289 player, not a statement piece or reference for absolute sound. Your 'unnecessary' comment still perplexes me. The player cannot convert straight DSD to analog because of the decoder chip. This is the similar situation as with the older DV-983H. When the first-gen Blu-ray players from Sony, Pioneer, etc. could not decode DTS-HD-Master Audio and only output regular DTS, was this 'unnecessary'? No, because the capability did not/does not exist.

Based on analog listening to both BDP-83 and SE version, when converting to PCM first, vs. straight to analog, the difference is minimal to non-existent. I posted about this months ago. I have direct experience listening to your imperative. For the consumer that needs the (potential) improvement offered by straight DSD->analog conversion, OPPO makes the BPD-83 and BDP-83SE. No one criticizes BMW because the 328i is not as fast as the 335i.

Every player on the market today has weaknesses, OPPO included. I've been clear and honest about these.

 

The 80 might be just the ticket for somebody that has an HDMI equipped head unit, such as I. I might buy the 83 anyway since I'm thinkin' it will do better with DVD's.

I'm glad Oppo didn't just make the 83 again....they've already done that, anyways.

 

It's a $300 player. Sony doesn't even bother to put SACD on any of their video players anymore. I find it hard to criticize Oppo for offering a universally compatible player at this low of a price point considering no one else is doing it. Go to Best Buy and look at the garbage they are selling for $300. This is meant to be a better quality alternative to those mass market players, not competition for an Esoteric or Meitner SACD player.

 

Yeah I don't get all the hate for this player especially the SACD conversion to PCM. It's 289 dollars. If you find a better universal player for less let me know.

 

Agreed. I seriously doubt you'd find a better BluRay/DVD player at this price point. That it can do DVD-A and SACD at all is just gravy.

 

The oppo83 does it right and not for much more. I know you have to cut corners to meet a price point but lets compare it to its sister unit the 83. I know sacd is not that important to most people but if you brag about it, do it right..Criticizing the oppo brand is like bible bashing around here, not this post necessary but around the whole forum. John M. By the way the esoteric does not state that it can play blu-ray like the oppo states that it can play sacd's.

 

I believe the point of contention is not Oppo, but whether DSD is converted to PCM or not. And that difference, despite a handful of firm proclamations here, is indeed arguable.

Outside of this forum I've found that listeners are split roughly in half for either position. Many believe PCM is doing it right.

And it is nearly impossible to compare two equivalent or even similar machines to make a such a call anyway. Maybe Oppo BDP83 vs Oppo BDP80? Yes, that would involve purchasing both.

If one's experience is that DSD is decidedly better, it should be a small matter – in this price range – to throw a couple hundred bucks more at an 83.

Meanwhile, for me here in mid-fi-land, the 80 is beckoning.

 

The BDP-83 I have heard and I like the sound (although we don't have non-conversion to compare with). The Pioneer 45A and others not so much. Maybe it depends on the implementation.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own an Oppo, although from what I can gather (not just from this forum) their players offer exceptional video quality, decent sound, and very good value for the money. If you want an SACD player that handles DSD natively, the 83 does that at $200 more. If I were a designer looking to cut corners on the 83 design, the first thing I would look at would be cutting SACD and DVD-A, since so few people even know what they are. Yet the 80 retains the ability to play these discs. I think its safe to say that the 80 is not the player for whom SACD sound quality would be a top priority. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not who the player is built for.

As for "bragging" about doing SACD, Oppo claims the player will playback the discs, and according to the beta testers, it does. That's better than I can say about any Sony BluRay player. But Oppo doesn't claim the 80 offers the ultimate in SACD sound quality, and in fact is quite straightforward about what is different between this player and its more expensive models (PCM conversion, plus a less sophisticated analog output stage). Again that's more than I can say about many hi-end brands who have various players at different price points and it is hard to know exactly what the difference between them is.

Personally, I just gave up on SACD entirely after my Sony 999ES bit the dust for good. Moving forward I plan to focus more funds on a standalone DAC and less on the disc spinning mechanism. Anyway, from my perspective SACD is an utterly failed format, so I find it hard to get worked up over a whether a budget player preserves the DSD purity of essence or not. I understand it is important to some, but I just could care less at this point.

 

At $289 Oppo had to make some compromises. I've seen people on some of the home theatre forums who aren't interested at all in audio saying they should have put out a player with the more advance video from the BDP-83 and not done the SACD, DVD-A and 7.1 analog outs. Maybe they will in the future.

 

I think this player offers a great package for me. I personally don't watch many dvds these days as Blu-Rays are getting cheaper and every 2nd week or so there are special offers on BR discs.
Also the DVD performance doesn't have to be bad, I suppose the BD80 will be at least as good as the 980H and I'm perfectly satisfied with this player.

What I need is a player that plays all my optical media, as I have some SACDs and DVDAs. This machine (probably) does a good job and I don't care about the few compromises. I don't know how this unit sounds, but I'd like to do a blind test between the BD80 and BD83, I bet that the differences are rather small.
It probably isn't bad and if I'm not satisfied with analog audio I can still use HDMI.

 

My mistake then. I had read (not sure of the source) that if DSD-to-PCM conversion is chosen in the BDP-83, the PCM data is at 24 bits / 88.2kHz and no longer encrypted.

Therefore, I assumed that if unencrypted PCM data can be sent over HDMI, it can also be provided over the co-axial output, especially since the co-axial output does support sampling frequencies up to 192kHz at a bit-depth of 24 bits.

 

Correct. But there's very little source material that supports unencrypted 24/192. The only thing I'm aware of is Classic's HDAD discs.

 

Yeah, the '80 is an inexpensive player, so compromises are to be expected. I'll give you that. Nevertheless, it seems that if one person tries to point out a shortcoming with an Oppo player, there are 100 people who immediately come to Oppo's defense. It's O.K. to just say that DSD-to-PCM is a compromise to be expected in a low-price player. I am willing to accept that.