New Harbeth compact 7's... Quite good

Quite categorical - was it based on auditioning of both products?

 

Generally yes. To the point of being very critical. But not the Harbeths it seems and that is from experience. Sure, I expect to hear slight differences between stands but how much does anyone want to pay for a slight difference when the same money can be used for a really big improvement in playback?
Honest, buy cheap stands if money is a bit of an issue and use what you save elsewhere, maybe a Cart' upgrade. Money better spent as the Harbeths will really show you what they can do with a good match here.

 

Lots of focus on stands here when it should be the speaker and the rest of the set up.

Yes, a stand should make a difference be it because of height or build. But the difference between any given stand build is fractional when it comes to Harbeth speakers. You don't have any that shout out above another for similar cost. The fact is you can get fantastic playback from Harbeths from cheap stands, the speaker performs very well on whatever you sit them on.Height is the critical factor but that applies to any speaker monitor.

Just a question. Did anyone do a blind test on stands before they bought? Thought not
Anyone hear a night/day difference between similar priced stands, same height?

 

John - I've not experimented with different fillers. Alan Shaw recommended kitty litter on the Harbeth site, so I just put that in there and never looked back. The instructions that came with the Skylan stands said to fill the legs up to within 3 inches or so from full. You have to make sure you tap the leg on the ground several times to eliminate empty pockets.

 

That's what I say too.

And I have heard them on two occasions, each lengthy listening sessions.
Liked them... a lot.... and they're still on my consideration list but at that money I need to the hear alternatives before spending the $$.
And it doesn't help that there are very few dealers and discounts seem to vary from little to none.

 

When your product is backordered, why would you offer a discount?

 

Good point I suppose, but in this day and age I think very few people actually expect to pay full list for anything, unless they are in the mega rich category buying ultra luxury items. That (how much we are willing to pay) is a decision each of us has to make.
As much as I admire Harbeth, among many other brands, there is always another option IMHO and for me it's worth exploring those options. At their current price I didn't buy the Harbeths, but it doesn't mean I won't go back to them in the future if they do indeed prove to be my best option.

OTOH the OP is happy with his purchase.
Putting aside the $$, they are wonderful speakers.
That's the most important thing and whatever he paid was obviously worth it to him.

 

Not only backordered, but very difficult to find used. Fidelis told me there was a wait list for new ones. But I have also been watching Audiogon and eBay off and on for a very long time and it is pretty rare that these come up for sale used. And when they do, they tend to be for sale by dealers who are asking for almost as much as a brand new pair. And they get it! I guess because of the wait period for new ones.

I bought the best priced ones I have ever seen for sale used. Not because I don't think they are worth the new price, but just because it was what I could afford.

 

I checked the dealer price for the new range of Harbeths and saw that they had all gone up by £200 in recent months. As much as my dealer likes to give discount when ever possible to my over all purchase's he could not offer any on the Harbeths. I bought the stands and new cable at the same time. Discount on stands and huge discount on cable was the best he could do.

 

Ah, sounds good. Thanks for the info.

 

I have several speakers: Harbeth SHL5's, Rogers L3/5a's, Quads 57's, Harbeth L3/5a's with AB2 subwoofers and YamahaNS1000m's. The SHL5's are the least dramatic of all, but I listen to them all the time. They have great resolution, lots of beef, are super-musical without feeling coloured, are fast and yet totally unobtrusive. I guess there's a reason they are never on the BAY

 

It's not really true that few people expect to pay full price for high-end audio. Those who automatically expect a significant discount from the MSRP are severely limiting their options. The truth is, many brands do not offer significant discounts for the following reasons:

1) The dealer margins are set relatively low to discourage heavy discounts.
2) Dealers are forbidden to significantly discount product lines because they are part of a dealer network and the manufacturer/distributor does not want one dealer stealing sales from the others.
3) Deep discounts hurt the value of the brand, especially when it comes to selling new product on Audiogon, etc.
4) If you watch carefully, you'll find that brands that are heavily discounted do not last long in the marketplace because of the lower perceived value. Look at the highly successful brands in high-end--Magnepan, Audio Research, McIntosh, etc.--and you'll see that most people are paying retail or very close to retail.

What happens between the dealer and the retail customer is between those two people and no one else. But if a dealer starts discounting in a public way, they risk making a very small profit, and they risk losing the line due to unfair pricing strategies. I know many dealers who have a policy of selling only at retail, and many of them are quite successful. The wheeler-dealers tend to lose product lines and are constantly switching brands. Very few people have confidence in dealers who are constantly adding and subtracting lines.

I do encounter retail customers who call us and ask about dealer pricing on a specific product. Then they start calling all my dealers to see who has the lowest price. In many cases they will ask to buy directly from us to save money, which doesn't happen. If they want the deal of the century, they usually don't get it. The dealers will start contacting each other with a warning about this particular customer. If one dealer goes rogue and undersells everyone else, they usually get dropped. That's not a good business model.

In terms of the brands that get heavily discounted by the major online retailers, well it's a little like going to the dark side. The other dealers will drop that line because they can't compete. Unless it's a very special product, it will eventually disappear. I've seen it happen a number of times. A good product gets good reviews, then one of the big online guys buys up the stock and discounts it heavily. After a year or two, the product is gone from the marketplace.

Brands like Harbeth are successful because the manufacturer and distributor are in it for the long term. They carefully control the availability and pricing of the brand and ensure it doesn't get unloaded on Audiogon or eBay or by one of the deep discounters. It's a basic supply-and-demand formula. Harbeth is expensive, but it's worth every penny. Knowledgeable audiophiles know this, and they will pay the going price to own something this special.

 

While I didn't buy Harbeths, I did ask for pricing after I listened to them. Local dealers ALL offered at least $500 off of list.

 

"At least $500 off list" from all of your local dealers for which Harbeth model? Not a demo version either?

 

Thanks for taking the time to construct such a detailed and well thought out post

All of what you say makes perfect sense, and I kind of knew that.
I spent 16 years working for a Japanese audio/video manufacturer (albeit a fairly low end one) so I have an idea how it works.
This has also been my hobby and passion for over 35 years so I'd like to think I'm a reasonably knowledgeable audiophile.
But the consumer side of me sees the high (though "high" is in the eye of the beholder) price and thinks someone is making an awful lot of money.
What people forget, and I am certainly guilty of this, is unlike the company I worked for which sold direct to the retailers, higher end firms often go through a distributor so there is another layer of profit in the mix.
And I sometimes wonder if the raw cost of manufacturing this stuff in low numbers is higher than many realize.

 

If anyone is making a lot of money, it's the shipping companies and freight forwarders. Shipping is by far the biggest expense, especially when you consider that high-end companies like to make amps and speakers that are big and heavy. Getting a 100 lb. speaker halfway around the world can easily cost a grand per pair, and then getting it shipped domestically to a dealer or customer is another few hundred. I know a distributor who paid for a company's flagship speaker--one that weighed several hundred pounds--to be sent to CES for display. The final bill? $12,000. Think of all the great speakers you can buy outright for that kind of money.

I'm not even going to mention all the damage that occurs with international shipping. Someone has to absorb those costs, and shipping companies are very skilled at fighting damage claims. And how much do you think it costs to insure speakers that weigh 400 pounds and retail for $100,000?

Manufacturers aren't getting rich because they're the ones with the most overhead. Distributors, who take the smallest cut, aren't getting rich because they're paying for customs and shipping and marketing. That leaves the dealers, who have to pay for advertising, overhead, shipping and more--and they're the ones dealing with customers who expect discounts.

 

I wonder how many of those dealers would retract that offer if they knew you were broadcasting it on the Internet.

 

Correct.

 

Hard to say, since I am not and have no intention of doing so.

 

Yes, you did. You said local dealers, and anyone can look at your profile and see where you live.

That said, you declined to mention the model. No one's going to freak out over a 10% discount.

 

Oh stop. I live in an area with at least 5 or 6 sources for Harbeth speakers. In any case, none of them told me that I shouldn't say what price they offered - they are adults and business-people. They will look our for their bottom line where necessary, it's not MY job.

I'm happy to share which models, if anyone cares.

 

1. You live in an area with TWO authorized Harbeth dealers. Maybe these discounts you're speaking of are on the gray market.
2. You haven't told us what model of Harbeth so we can see the percentage of the discount and whether it's significant enough to get the dealer in trouble.

 

what dealers are in the Santa Cruz area. I'd be interested in hearing some Harbeths

 

Which model do they all offer at least $500 off??

 

Good point....... I spoke with the local Sugden dealer/distributor recently about listening to one of their amps.
He couldn't do it because everything in the latest shipment (3x A21 IIRC) had arrived damaged