New cart for Pro-ject Debut III

Dial towards the front. I've read about some problems people have had when they've had the dial facing backwards - it sticks out too far and gets in the way of the lid.

 

What cart do you have? Sorry if you already said, but I can't be bothered to read the whole thread!

 

Chaps, we will if you ask nicely They aren't that heavy.

The standard weight for the Debut III for 3.5 to 5.5g carts is 65g. The heavier weight is 75g and is for 6 to 9g carts.

For some reason in the pics they are **** backward, but you would usually face the dial to the front

 

I got the AT 440MLa. I haven't had much chance to listen to it yet. Just a few tracks.

 

Really? That's nice of you. I will keep it in mind. My MacGyver counterweight worked so I might stick with it. Nothing like an old metal washer held on with some JB Weld.

 

After spending a few hours with my new cart (AT 440MLa) I have to say the stock Ortofon OM 5E that comes with the Debut III is a piece of poopy. The Ortofon adds or accentuates the surface noise like pops and clicks way too much. I'm much happier with the Audio Technica. YMMV of course.

 

Just wanted to give an update on this. I got the AT440MLa and the heavier counterweight. It tracks like a dream - hardly any distortion at all. Am very pleased - thanks to everyone who gave advice.

One small thing though - the right channel is louder than the left. I have tried adjusting the azimuth, and it makes no difference. I have also looked at the cart alignment. Right channel is always louder than the left. If I adjust the balance via my tape deck (using the VU meter to get the right levels), it sounds perfect, and I cannot hear any difference in sound quality between the channels. There is no distortion on either channel, or buzzing. It's just the volume which differs. Any ideas as to what could be causing this?

 

Have you adjusted the anti-skate?

 

Hmmm...can't remember if I tried this. It's already on the setting which is recommended for the tracking force, but it is worth a try. Will report back tomorrow.

 

For best performance, the tonearm and cartridge must be matched. All cartridges will not work with all tonearms, and vice versa. To insure a proper match, one must be aware of the mechanical specifications of both the arm and phono cartridge.

The goal in matching a specific cartridge and arm is to achieve a resonance in the 10 to 12Hz range.

* A tonearm whose effective mass is rated at 10 grams or below is considered low mass.
*A tonearm whose effective mass is rated between 11 and 25 grams is considered moderate mass.
*A tonearm above 25 grams of mass are high mass in nature (Eminent Technology, Dynavector).


A phono cartridge whose compliance is rated at 12 x l0ˉ6 or below, is considered low compliance. A cartridge whose compliance is rated between 13 x l0ˉ6 and 25 x l0ˉ6 is considered high to very high.

The general rule is...
1. high compliance cartridge with a low mass arm.
2. low compliance cartridge with a high mass arm.

JG

 

Thanks for that. The cartridge compliance is 10, and the tonearm mass is 9.5g. So, according to your rule, they are not compatible. Would this be causing the discrepancy in volume between the channels?

 

I was wondering about the compliance issue as well.

I picked up a Debut III in September and had the dealer upgrade the cartridge to an OM20 Super. The dealer initially offered me a deal on the tt with an Ortofon 520, but when I discussed it with him, he thought for a minute and then suggested that the OM20 would probably be a better match for the tonearm.

I loved how dynamic the whole thing sounded from the outset. Drums seemed to snap with a realism I'd never heard on CDs. The highs weren't as extended as I'd like or the bass bloom as big (although it did seem solid), but I attributed this to needing a break-in period. It's certainly through that now and the highs are better than they were but the bass is still quite lean, and I agree that surface noise is definitely a pain.

My biggest issue with the tt right now is a bass "hum" I get whenever the needle comes into contact with the vinyl. I don't think it's an electrical hum because when the arm is up, there's no noise at all, but as soon as the needle is in the groove, there's a slight hum below 100Hz or so that sounds like a resonance issue. For awhile, I thought perhaps this was just a limitation of the Debut III's design, but perhaps it is cartridge-related. Anyone else experience this?

By the way, I'm one of those who dips my stylus in a block of Magic Eraser to clean it every so often. I notice that the hum also occurs whenever the needle sets down in the block. It's not as loud as when the needle is tracking a groove, but it's the same sort of resonance.

If it is cartridge related, is there anything I can do with the OM20 adjustment wise to improve this or am I going to have to go for something else?

 

As a follow-up, here are a couple of samples of my hum problem.

http://stevethomson.ca/samples/hum1.wav

http://stevethomson.ca/samples/hum2.wav

Notice that on the first one, the bass hum seems to sound like an off-center LP, in that it's intermittent. On the second one, it's more even, which is what I usually get.

Any ideas?

(Sorry to threadjack, but if this problem is cartridge-related, then here's a good reason not to pick an OM20!)

 

And here's yet another follow-up. Someone suggested I check without the motor on. I did, and sure enough, the sound does not occur when the motor is not running. I tried setting the needle down on vinyl and it was silent. I even carefully turned the record with my finger on the label and listened to the intro to a song with no hum present at all. I also tried sitting the stylus down in the magic eraser block as mentioned in a previous message but again no sound. As soon as I turn on the motor, the hum reappeared. It definitely sounds like some kind of resonance/feedback from the motor. Anyone else experienced such a problem?

 

I think mine does this hum thing as well. It did it with the stock OM5 and my newer Audio Technica 440MLa. Not sure what the cause is.

 

I just checked mine right now. Really, really quiet on mine. Not sure if this is the same problem you're having or not.

 

I've done some fiddling. I removed the rubber belt. I then placed the styli on a vinyl record. No humming. I then turned the motor on(platter didn't move of course) and a faint humming can be heard. I'm new to the turntable world. Not sure of this is to be expected from the level of a table or not.

 

Its the most likely thing. Sometimes though its just the room acoustics. My front room setup is skewed left. Doesn't matter what cart, what phono amp, what speakers, CD, vinyl whatever ... only thing'll fix it is the balance knob.

Re the arm/cart compliance/resonance thing. Its not just the arm mass but the complete arm plus cartridge and mounting gear mass you need to consider.

Also in your case you needn't worry. AT make nice carts but they don't know how to measure compliance (Denon don't either). Your cart may have a compliance of 10cu if you measure it at 100Hz ... which you shouldn't . If they had measured it at 10Hz like they should have, It'd be more like 18cu ... fine for the arm.

Anti skate recommendation is just for guidance. How much you actually need varies depending on stylus profile mainly ... an ML stylus like the AT will need a lot less than the elliptical OM5e. The only way to really accurately set it is by using a test record.

 

I called my dealer this morning and arranged to bring it in tomorrow. He's going to keep it for a couple of days and run some tests to see if the motor needs to be replaced. After trying a few different tests myself last night, I've pretty much concluded that it's related to the motor. It's almost like the stylus is completing some sort of microphonic/acoustic feedback loop with the motor.

I'll post the results once I know more. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Great, I'm interested in the result.

 

After looking at the Debut's parts I'm starting to think the motor may be vibrating or resonating through cheap pressed steel platter.

 

One thing to look at before you send the Debut back to the dealer.

Take the platter off the turntable and have a look at the motor. Have you taken the transport screws out that holds the motor secure during shipping? The motor should be floating on a rubber band, to reduce motor vibration getting through to the cartridge.

 

Check this out and see where the compliance match of your arm and cartridge.

http://www.cartridgedb.com/resonance_from_cart.asp?cdesc=Audio Technica AT-440ML&cmass=6.5&ccomp=10

 

The compliance for the AT is 40. I find the calculator below to be very user friendly, for finding the resonance frequency........

http://www.audiotic.com/T&TSetup/T&TSetupFS.htm

 

I've noticed the 440MLa lists both static and dynamic compliance. What's the difference, and which should one care about?