New Analogue Productions Nat King Cole vinyl: "Mixing directly to 45 RPM lacquer" adventures!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jun 6, 2009.

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  1. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident

    Is that why DCC didn't wind up doing it?
     
    Gary Freed, Jun 9, 2009
    #126
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    No, they couldn't find the tapes at that time. Tricky to find the right ones of the Capitol material of the 1951-56 era. A snap now of course, only 10 years too late.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jun 9, 2009
    #127
  3. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Thanks for the confirmation, Steve. I'm glad this is getting documented - its good to see the guys "upstairs" getting some recognition.
     
    jtaylor, Jun 9, 2009
    #128
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    It's very difficult. Engineers got NO credits in those days, thus the "Engineered by...." section on the tape legends seldom got filled out.

    Sometimes the only way to tell who engineered what is to look at the handwriting on the tape boxes. Sometimes the only option is to listen to the studio chatter and talkback. For example on "TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH" you hear Lee stopping a few takes and Nat says: "What is the problem? Am I off or something?"

    Lee explains that they are trying to work something out and it's "our fault". (They were trying to get mic "highlight" coverage on some special horns...)

    Nat then states that he misses the days of Bessie Smith and one microphone for everything. You clearly hear Lee on the talkback go (in his usual dour manner): "Yeah, Kraus agrees".

    Therefore, John Kraus was at the helm that day.

    Hard to document but sometimes you catch a break...:agree:

    But it's impossible to listen to every outtake. I'd still be there...
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jun 9, 2009
    #129
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  5. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    I hope you're able to include some of that chatter in the upcoming releases. Absolutely priceless! Either way, it's just such a rare insight into those sessions.

    Thanks. :righton:
     
    jtaylor, Jun 9, 2009
    #130
  6. pbda

    pbda Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, England
    Something else to anticipate spending money on...talk about an embarrassment of riches.
     
    pbda, Jun 10, 2009
    #131
  7. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Location:
    Quebec City, Canada
    Perhaps you could let apileocole (Chris) do it for you. I'm sure he'd do it for free... ;)

    Thanks for all the additional info Steve! I'm really looking forward to these releases.
     
    Simon A, Jun 10, 2009
    #132
  8. zurge

    zurge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Thanks to everyone involved with this (Chad/AP, Steve, Kevin, etc.) for being able to make it happen. :righton:

    :goodie:
     
    zurge, Jun 10, 2009
    #133
  9. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY, USA
    Fun stuff! Thanks for sharing that.

    In the first post of this thread it says:

    "1956, Love Is The Thing (with complete original 12 "Closed miked" mono mixes as bonus tracks on the SACD version)...
    1958, Songs From "St. Louis Blues" (Overture restored for first time since 1958)"

    I should know, since I'm a NKC fan, but are there completely different takes for the mono version of Love is the Thing. In other words, there's a whole new album that's very slightly different from the stereo version that I've known all these years? Separate question: is the famous dry version of Stardust going to be included? (hope so!)

    On St. Louis Blues, the two versions beyond the original LP that I have (the rare mono Capitol CD from c. 1990?) and the Bear Family release from c. 2006 both have, I'm pretty sure, the overture. But I guess it's the first time it's been on vinyl since the original release...What had to be done to restore it?
     
    benjaminhuf, Jun 10, 2009
    #134
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    Quickly, on ST. LOUIS BLUES the overture on the three track tape was lopped off and stored at the end of the reel. We put it back. Perhaps it was restored on an old stereo or mono dub or something but unless someone did it digitally, this is the first time for the original version...

    LOVE IS THE THING. They were very careful to use the same takes. Just different miking positions. You'll tell when the cello solo in the opening of the first song plays on the mono. Ah, it's miked!:)

    No "dry" STARDUST, no. Since the artist, producer and engineer clearly would not have released anything that sounded that "stark" back in the day, neither will we.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jun 10, 2009
    #135
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  11. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Ben,

    The only difference here is in the recording set up. The mono album will offer a different listening experience for you, but the musical performances are the same as those on the stereo issue. For example, if "Stardust" was take #3 on the stereo, then take #3 will be on the mono as well.

    Only one album comes immediately to mind - JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS - where the performances on the mono and stereo vary. Two songs on the mono album W 903, have edits, intercuts near the very end of the song. Otherwise, it too is just like the stereo SW 903 (except for the different mic set up).

    Too late. I see Steve beat me to it.
     
    jtaylor, Jun 10, 2009
    #136
  12. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    I hope we see more than 1 or 2 of the photos. There is probably a whole contingent here that is interested in the technical aspects of the production. I am going to send a note to Acoustic Sounds encouraging them to publish or post as many of the shots as possible.
     
    dale 88, Jun 11, 2009
    #137
  13. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    Is this the only release to have these bonus tracks? I ask because in the UK this listing is already available to listen to on Spotify.
     
    Mike the Fish, Jun 12, 2009
    #138
  14. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    No. The Capitol Jazz CD as well as the Pure Pleasure LP both had this track listing.
     
    jtaylor, Jun 12, 2009
    #139
  15. monewe

    monewe Forum Resident

    Location:
    SCOTLAND
    God help me when is never going to end more money to find to spend on cd's.

    Swear to god this place will be the financial ruin of me. But I will die happy.
     
    monewe, Jun 12, 2009
    #140
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  16. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    When will these come out?
     
    aoxomoxoa, Jun 12, 2009
    #141
  17. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    Thanks! :righton:
     
    Mike the Fish, Jun 12, 2009
    #142
  18. ShawnMcCann

    ShawnMcCann A Still Tongue Makes A Happy Life

    Location:
    The Village
    Sign me up for each one of these on both SACD and LP. Top priority for my $$ over any other huge reissue series coming out this year, or the next few years for that matter if the price of the 45rpm sets is like the Fantasy or Blue Note 45rpm reissues.
     
    ShawnMcCann, Jun 12, 2009
    #143
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    The bonus tracks for AFTER MIDNIGHT you mean? All current versions have five or six bonus tracks. However, our SACD/CD and 45 RPM vinyl versions of AFTER MIDNIGHT will have these songs directly from the session reels (marked "hold" back in 1956 and re-confirmed in August of 1959 - thus saved from the Vine Street dumpster). Some of these have not been played for 53 years... Dubs of these extra AFTER MIDNIGHT songs are duped on "singles" reels at EMI and they are the easiest to access but we always try to go back to the original source (making mucho extra work for everyone). :winkgrin: Since the original session reels for AFTER MIDNIGHT were only saved if the magic word "HOLD" was written on them, we have a good shot of finding all of the bonus tracks in first generation. (Nat recorded 17 songs for AFTER MIDNIGHT, they were having such a good time they just kept piling on the songs. Only 12 could fit on the LP so they picked the ones to be released and the rest were put on the shelf, totally forgotten until years later when the late Pete Welding found them again in 1986).

    A few words about AFTER MIDNIGHT:

    The session "outs" reveal a relaxed, intimate bunch of sessions with Nat and producer Lee Gillette both in good spirits and good humor. They play off each other like the two old buddies that they are. At the first AFTER MIDNIGHT session in August, 1956 (Nat's first at the new Capitol Tower Studio) when Nat messes up the words to ROUTE 66 on take one, Lee suggests in his usual dour manner that they concentrate on doing some older material that Nat could remember the words to (hee, the song was years old by that point and Nat had sung it thousands of times). Lee's sense of humor suited Nat and kept all their sessions together for 21 years going smoothly).

    I think AFTER MIDNIGHT is one of the most important albums that Nat "King" Cole ever recorded. Even though it commits the sin of being in mono only, this stuff should be required listening for everyone. This kind of musical perfection is pretty much now gone from the world..
     

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    Steve Hoffman, Jun 12, 2009
    #144
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  20. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Steve,

    I always appreciate your comments about Lee Gillette. His contribution is so overlooked, so undervalued, that it's great to read about his working relationship with Nat from someone who has an appreciation for his work. There is very little information available about Gillette so whatever you've been able to glean from the tapes is certainly welcome from me.
     

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    jtaylor, Jun 12, 2009
    #145
  21. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY, USA
    Thanks SH--this made me laugh out loud!:righton: :laugh:Any chance this is going on the record? I hope so!
     
    benjaminhuf, Jun 12, 2009
    #146
  22. Blair G.

    Blair G. Senior Member

    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Indeed :agree:
     
    Blair G., Jun 13, 2009
    #147
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    I won't bore you all again with the "better grab these when they come out because you'll never experience anything like this again" speech..

    But it's true. I doubt any one is ever going to go to this trouble again to bring you Nat Cole in "straight wire with gain" sound. I don't even know if we could do it again; I can't believe we did it at all. It seems like a dream now...
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jun 13, 2009
    #148
  24. whiskerbiscuit

    whiskerbiscuit Forum Resident

    Location:
    SoCal
    Oh my!
     
    whiskerbiscuit, Jun 13, 2009
    #149
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    Email Acoustic Sounds and ask them. The more of you that ask the faster they will come out.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jun 17, 2009
    #150
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