Needle-drop on a budget.

It's just that you seemed to get started on the thread a little off balance and seem to have been defending yourself or opposing suggestions rather than giving much information in terms of the OPs original question. This has been typed very calmly.

 

Would this be a suitable external sound card for a start up, M-Audio Fast Track Pro Sound card 96 kHz 24-bit. I was thinking of putting this in the set up with a Cambridge Audio 640p.
Would this give me more than reasonable needledrops?

 

If you're handy with a soldering iron I heartily recommend the Hagerman Bugle. Awesome budget phono preamp.

Clickrepair is all flavors of awesome. It is not perfect, however. Some types of sound - such as synths with sawtooth waves and high frequency brass instruments - can be mistaken for clicks and it can dull the sound in these cases, even with low settings. However the instructions go to great length on how to deal with this type of situation. I heartily recommend clickrepair - and DeNoise for low frequency rumble removal - this software is a godsend. It's one of those cases where you don't need to spend a lot of money on some esoteric stuff to get great results.

 

Okay, now have my turntable hooked up to a Creek preamp which is then connected to my Yamaha A/V receiver. Will I receive acceptable results if I connect one of the receiver audio outs to my wife's laptop via our Soundblaster Live 24/96 USB external soundcard and capture the audio using Audacity or some other audio capture program?

Also, what about declicking?

 

Yes, but it might be even better direct from the Creek to Soundblaster, monitor by headphones on the laptop.

Declicking is optional, we all love the program ClickRepair because it works and doesn't excessively mush up the music.

 

Just be aware that Audacity has a bug that prevents it from recording Hi-Res (anything other than 16 bits) on a Windows platform. It will look like it is working at 24 bits, but an examination of the data will show it recorded at 16 bits and padded all the lower 8 bits with zeros. This only applies to Windows platforms. Linux and Mac are fine.
I use Goldwave for recording (about $30 if I remember right). And Clickrepair for declicking. Another $30 or so.

Terry

 

Grrrr. Thanks for the heads-up. I hate to spend more money right now being that we just got back from vacation. I have Roxio Creator on the main machine which has an audio capture program attached to it. Maybe I can install it on the laptop and try that. If that doesn't work, then I guess I'll be spending some money.

 

Good point. I can't imagine that cutting out the receiver in the A/D chain wouldn't increase the quality of the final product somewhat.

I imagine it'll take some time to perfect the process (if that's possible!) but it'll be worth it in the long run especially since I'll be able to stop buying the CD and vinyl editions of various new releases.

 

If the Roxio capture woks for recording, you can still use Audacity to edit. Audacity handles the 24 bit fles properly except for the recording.

terry

 

Another good free option that definitely records 24-bit files without problem is Wavosaur (www.wavosaur.com). It also handles plugins better than Audacity.

 

edit: didn't realise this post is rather old...
Also with electronic music - particularly analog synths that have that wonderful crackle to them - for example, Van Halen "Jump", Depeche Mode's entire album "Sounds of the Universe".

 

I found ClickRepair shortly after I started re-investing in vinyl, and it really is a godsend - much better than some of the other solutions I've tried.

It's certainly not perfect, as mentioned, but where I find it really worth buying is with used records. Even with a good cleaning you'll have some pops and clicks, but this tool really cleans them up well without distorting the music.

 

I agree. Get one that matches the RIAA curve as close as possible and has a linear phase response! 1,000,000x more important than high resolution and high bit depth!!!! Audiophiles tend to overlook frequency and phase response specs!!!!

 

Okay, my first attempt did not go well. The line-in was toasty hot and there's no way to lower the gain on either the external SoundBlaster Live card or the Creek pre-amp. I've read that adjusting the line-in post-conversion results in additional distortion. Suggestions?

 

Do you have a volume controlled output on the receiver?
Adjusting the Line In in the control panel didn't get down far enough?

 

I connected the pre-amp directly to the sound card. Do you suppose I could run it through the receiver and simply use the volume control on the receiver? I could adjust the line-in from the control panel but would that create additional distortion?

 

That depends. Your receiver will need a preamp out, or some kind of output that is affected by the volume control. Often it only controls what goes through the power amp to the speakers. The line in control should change the gain of the hardware, i.e. attenuate the input of the card. There isn't any processing done in the driver.. only in the mixer. I think that's how it works. I have a volume knob on my phono preamp/ripper. I'd try the line in control first to see if you can tame it, then try the receiver.

 

It's easy to make needledrops. Just connect a cable from the headphone jack on your stereo receiver to your computer, and use Audacity to record. Record with a peak volume of -6dB and you're good to go.

Hey, ya wanted the "easy" version, so there it is.

Personally, I'd invest in the turntable and stereo system and, ya know, actually play those records. If you're smart, you can find some fantastic vintage gear for a fraction of today's hideously overpriced "hi-fi" gear. There should be a thread on this forum for killer deals on eBay and online stores, so people can find the good stuff.

 

Roxio does not do anything but 16-bit for CD-R. All I use for Roxio is burning the final CD from 16-bit.

 

I think that we’ve seen before here that the Creek pre-amps run a little hot for PC soundcards (line level is too high). The only solution is to put a resistor or pot in the line to attenuate the volume.

 

SUCCESS!

Thanks to all the helpful comments, I was able to achieve an acceptable 24/96 needledrop using Wavosaur (thx for the heads-up on Roxio, Grant!). I fixed the gain issue by routing the signal from the preamp through my receiver using the receiver's preamp out. I can now control the volume to the soundcard pre-conversion. I used one of my "hotter" records to set the volume level on the receiver to max out at -6. This may result in some relatively quiet drops in the future, but that's something I can easily deal with.

Maybe not an ideal method, but good enough for now. Thanks again, everybody! Couldn't have done it without you!

 

So what in your experience is the optimal ClickRepair setting? The default is 50 but I saw mentioned earlier that 20 or below was pretty good.

 

I've actually used it all the way down at 1. Most useful feature is the 'listen to the noise' one, you can hear what's being taken out.

 

It depends on how anal you want to get about it. It is almost impossible to find a setting that removes all of the clicks but does not affect the music. I find low settings (20 or less) is required for music with plucked strings ( bluegrass). Some music can tolerate higher settings. So after several attempts to find a setting that works for the entire album, I finally started using it semi-automatic mode. You set a threshold that is the number of consecutive samples that click repair can fix automatically. I set this very low, so that in effect, it must prompt me to approve each repair. It is pretty easy to tell by looking at the upper display if the suggested repair is an actual click or a music transient. The music transients are always at the beginning of a burst of music. Actual clicks are isolated. Then I set the level so that the number of false detections is reasonable. In this mode, you can set the level on the fly, so I just keep adjusting it to keep it as low as possible without constantly stopping on every music transient. It usually takes me about half an hour to goo through an album like this.
Of course if you are less anal about it, you can just set the level so that there is not a large number of repairs.
One technique I use to make sure I don't have the level too high is. To use my editor program (Goldwave) to invert a copy of the click repaired file and add it back (mix 1:1) with the unprepared file. So you end up with just the samples that click repair changed. Then play that back. If you get any sense of the beat of the song, then the level is too high.

Terry

 

I'm going to want to (for now) automate as much as I can since time is pretty scarce with two toddlers running around. I don't mind if the occasional click or pop is not removed. Later when I have more time I'll spend more time on click repair.