NAT KING COLE in special Vintage MONO MIXES from Analogue Productions on SACD/CD!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jul 16, 2009.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    AP is working on the typesetting stuff now I think. Of course everything has to be approved by the licensor and that usually (always) slows things down. That is why it's impossible to predict a release date on a reissue like this.
     
  2. Vinylsoul 1965

    Vinylsoul 1965 Senior Member

    Thanks Steve...I am thankful that it will give me a bit of time to recoup after 09-09-09. I have been saving extra gig money for the remasters - so I will be doing the same for the Nat releases!!! :)

    I am sure when you hear wind of a release date that you will keep us posted. :)
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    If I hear about a release date I'm sure it will be because it's posted here.. I'm usually the last to know..
     
  4. Vinylsoul 1965

    Vinylsoul 1965 Senior Member

    LOL... the parent is ALWAYS the last one to hear!! :)
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    That's for sure.
     
  6. Loud Listener

    Loud Listener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Steve, does AP have someone on staff to handle the LP production cover art/typesetting, or does Chad contract it out?

    Just curious....I've done some of that kind of work over the years and know what it takes to do that type of work. LP jackets would be cool to work on. I have done some CD cover layouts.
     
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    No idea. Give them a call..
     
  8. indy mike

    indy mike Forum Pest

    I'll second that notion - I've seen some samples of Tim's handiwork and he does a mighty splendid job with artwork... ;)
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    Chris, Jordan, Dale, benjaminhuf et al:

    The mono "Hold" version of "You'll Never Know" sounds wonderful. There is a beautiful unissued version of "Just For The Fun Of It" on the reel that I'm going to try and use. I believe this is the only complete surviving outtake from the 1957 JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS sessions and of course it only survives because it's on the same reel as the "Hold" track.

    What I have found (from listening to this one reel) is that they usually have the song nailed by take 1! The high take count on these songs usually has to do with getting the band to lock in the groove in the first two bars or simply fine tuning the tempo. And I mean very slight adjustments in tempo.

    The 14 takes of "You'll Never Know" are mainly the first "playback" take (they play it back in the studio and control room so Nat, etc. can hear it and make slight changes.) The rest of the take numbers are basically false starts (marked FS or LFS "Long False Start"). Essentially take one of "You'll Never Know" sounds finished. It's an interesting process.

    On "Just For The Fun Of It" after the take 1 run through, Nat Cole was unhappy with the tempo. He thought it was a shade too fast. Next take you can hear them slow it down a bit and Nat falls into the groove naturally.

    A window into the past that I hope to share with you on our upcoming SACD/CD release of JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS..
     
  10. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Steve, perhaps you can clarify something about this outtake which I'm guessing is take 3 - take 12, recorded at one of the later sessions, being the LP master. In 1993 it "appeared" for the first time on the Capitol Jazz disc The Billy May Sessions, and again "appeared" on the Bear Family set in 2006. However, to my ears, and after multiple A/B comparisons, I am convinced that the take used on these two sets - credited as being the alternate, take 3 - is take 12. Both sets inadvertently using take 12 twice. Can you confirm? If the alternate has in fact yet to be issued, it would obviously be a tremendous boon to this set if it were to be included.

    Thanks.
     
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    Jordan,

    I have not heard either of those disks. There is actually a take 3 on this reel that can be used (with a bit of 4/5/6/7 digitally edited in there to make a perfect take) so they probably did.

    I want to use take 1 (which is actually take 2 because take 1 was not slated as such and just used as a playback take). It was never used for anything in the past and is really great..

    Make sense?

    Jordan,

    The muted horn solo in the middle and phrasing of Nat at the start of each take is totally different so one should be able to tell easily...
     
  12. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    The solo is identical on the "alternate." Must not be an alternate.
     
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    Well,

    I just went to Amazon to give a listen. The "alt" is the same as the issued take but I figure that is a mistake in the computer playback. So you are saying it is not? There is a usable take 3 but Nat's intro is different and so is the horn solo.... With digital editing it could be used (and should have been)..

    Very confusing... Bear Family is the same? Exact same take twice, the issued LP take? Can someone confirm?
     
  14. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    and I agree with Jordan - they released an "alternate take" on two CD sets now and both times the alternate and the released take are the same. Can't tell 'em apart. Wonderful song.

    Since an alternate was ostensibly cleared for issue before, albeit not actually issued, perhaps that'd help get this ok'd? No idea, but good luck and I look forwards to hearing the goodies there.
     
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    I can't believe they goofed like that. Doesn't make sense unless the A&R administrator didn't know the song that well and the mastering engineer didn't either. The alt's (take "1" and take 3) are totally unique sounding, tempo, phrasing, etc. I'm really scratching my head.. No one at BEAR FAMILY noticed either?

    Let me just say that this reel looks like it has not been played since 1957. It's missing some of the modern bar code stickers that every other Nat reel has, meaning that until this week it was never checked out of the Mountain before..
     
  16. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    I was baffled they wouldn't notice it was the same take, but seems that's what happened. Noted 17287-14 (alt) and 17288-12 (issued), same take both times, on both the Billy May and Bear sets. Maybe the notes indicated something the - stereo - tapes no longer matched and they shoulda dug for mono tapes but still... puzzling. Ah well, glad you found real alternates. :)
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    The alt. version on Amazon was the stereo dry remix of take 12. The real outtakes only exist in MONO and have much more reverb. As far as I know there are no three-track "hold" reels for this project, unless they are misfiled or mislabeled..

    Baffling..
     
  18. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    Wow. This is exciting stuff for all who enjoy NKC. It's like a mystery story. I like the idea of a reel being unplayed for more than 50 years....and now we get to hear it. Fun stuff. Thanks for all of your work on this....
     
  19. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    It is great to know the mono "You'll Never Know" is going to be treat.

    Am looking forward to a different take on "Just For The Fun Of It". Another wonderful find. I am fond of that song and the way Nat & Billy define it.
     
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    Hopefully we will be allowed to put it on there. Fingers crossed..
     
  21. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    I did what I could to alert them about the "Just For the Fun of It" alternate, but to no avail. There were a few other similar instances on those sets, some were resolved; others, like "Looking Back," featured a bona fide alternate take in place of the mono master.
     
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    Jordan,

    We are just pains in the butt to them sometimes..:angel:

    I listened to the stereo mix I did of "YOU'LL NEVER KNOW" today just to make sure I had the right mono take and Lee slated it (I left the slate on there) as "Take Nine" which totally threw me off. I guess the intro of take 9 is used and then the rest of the song was "pieced" from the last take. I know it's the last because the drums are a bit off in spots, same on the mono final take... Actually earlier takes in mono of "YOU'LL NEVER KNOW" are better than the final approved take. If I use one of those I'll probably screw up discographies everywhere..
     
  23. perham

    perham New Member

    Location:
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Jordan, do you recall which songs that there were problems with?

    Steve, all these different NKC mastering projects make me dizzy. Will the NKC mono's discussed under this thread be released on CD, or only SACD?
    I understand that the albums listed in here will be issued in CD? Thank you!
     
  24. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    I wouldn't exactly say they were problems, but some songs did prove to be more difficult than others in locating an appropriate tape source, especially with so many overdubbed tapes floating around. "Just For the Fun of It" was the only song thought to be an alternate, but in fact identical to the master.

    A couple I do recall that were transferred and assumed by Bear Family to be the master take:

    "A Rag, A Bone, and A Hank of Hair" - the 3 track mix that appears on the set is a distinct performance - much different, much longer - than the original mono mix. BF did not know this so fortunately both the long and short versions were able to be included.

    "Magic Night" was also a pain. Probably the last song found for the set. Although the rest of that session was covered and appears in stereo, no stereo tape sans overdubs could be located. Thus, it appears in mono only.
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    California
    From Analogue Productions/Acoustic Sounds. Issued on a multi-layer disk with a three channel DSD layer, two channel DSD layer and CD layer:

    AFTER MIDNIGHT (mono with six bonus tracks, one prev. unissued anywhere)
    LOVE IS THE THING
    JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS with bonus tracks
    ST. LOUIS BLUES with unedited overture
    THE VERY THOUGHT OF YOU with two bonus tracks
    THE NAT "KING" COLE STORY with two bonus tracks
    WHERE DID EVERYONE GO? with two bonus tracks

    The mono versions of LOVE IS THE THING/JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS/ST. LOUIS BLUES and THE VERY THOUGHT OF YOU including bonus tracks will be included.

    There will be 45 RPM vinyl of all the above titles as well featuring unique mixes cut directly onto lacquer from three-track tapes. Bonus tracks will be included.

    THE PIANO STYLE OF NAT "KING" COLE is to be issued on Pure Pleasure Records, Ltd. on 33 1/3 RPM vinyl.

    All above mastered by Hoffman/Gray.
     
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