Hi, Kevin. IIRC, it's 6 mics: The usual three omnis across the front, a single woodwind accent mic, and two reverb/ambience mics out in the hall. As far as the spacing goes, I forget if the mics were more widely spaced, the players were more widely spaced (due to the stage dimensions and lack of proscenium), or a combination of the two, but regardless, it's a wonderful and wide-open recording, at least to my ears. Too bad the 35mm masters are long gone, but these dubs were very well done back in the 1960s, thank goodness.
It's hard to believe it could sound better to be honest. I hear almost no hiss. I've played (years ago as a student) in an orchestra where the spacing was very wide and my memory of it is that it's harder to hear the other parts. But, the performance is really riveting, which is great when the sound is there too.
I like the Command records as well or maybe even better than the Mercury 35mm records.Maybe that's just because Command made so many more 35mm records than Mercury did.I know I have several dozen of them from all my digging at thrift stores.I never picked up the MCA issues,because they looked almost as low budget as those horrid Westminster Gold records of the 70s everybody loves so much for their gawdawful covers.
Some of those MCA CDs truly ARE awful, too! That said (and I may have posted this somewhere in this thread or elsewhere), there was exactly ONE set that was (largely) remixed to stereo from the 3-track 35mm masters, and it's this 2-CD set: http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonies-Overture-Ludwig-van/dp/B000009I6Q/ref=sr_1_11?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1358304224&sr=1-11&keywords=Steinberg Pittsburgh Beethoven&tag=vglnkc4192-20
"Symphony No. 4....Symphony No. 7, and Leonore Overture No. 3 remixed and transferred to digital directly from original master 35mm magnetic film." "Remastering engineer: Doug Schwartz." That's literally the only such credit on any of these MCA reissues of Command titles. No others mention 35mm film at all.
Matt, I've got the CDs. Symphony No.2 made off the cutting master (?), sounds like a ordinary Command Classics recording, while, to my big surprise, other symphonies and a overture which were remixed directly off 35mm film, sound very beautiful as opposed to the 'Hi-fi' Command sound. It is quite similar with the sound of their (the same conductor and the same orchestra) Capitol recording, Toch Symphony no.3 which is very highly regarded among audiophiles. In other words, they sounded like recording like a single XY pair mics! I was very surprised.
Hi, Yasijuro. You made me go back to my actual CDs of the Beethoven/Command stuff, as well as the Toch/Capitol recording, as I didn't want to just talk out of my hat to your excellent points. Yes, the sound of Symphony #2 (not remixed) is W-I-D-E as can be, i.e., high strings far left, low strings far right, woodwinds in the middle, and with that "cutting master" sound to it. No question. The stuff that was remixed from 35mm is entirely different in nature, and I think that's a reflection of the remix style, which seems to be considerably narrowed, although with very pleasant, warm tone. Listen to the strings "spread" and the position of the timpani (for instance), and there is clearly a marked difference in the left-to-right presentation. (I wish the remix was wide and warm, but it's still very nice the way it is.) As far as the Toch recording, that was in Syria Mosque. I *think* that the Command stuff was all done in Soldiers & Sailors Memorial Hall. (I don't recall any Command recordings in Syria Mosque, but I don't own every Command album.) I wouldn't go quite as far as saying that Command remixes sound like an x-y recording, but I see where you are coming from on that comment. It's certainly not the wide, spacious (typical) Command sound. Which version of the Toch do you have? Mine was mastered "by Simon Gibson at Abbey Road," and strikes me as being a little over cooked in the "airy treble" department, although I'm guessing the recording (two Altec 21B mics??) was no picnic to start with. It's this CD:
HI Matt. Thank you very much for the extended comment. My copy of Toch is the old FDS vinyl. BTW Who do you think was the recording engineer(s) for the Command's Beethoven? As far as some discographies go, it seems not every Command recording was done by Bob Fine (while G. Piros was always the mastering engineer).
I wish I knew. I've got an article about a Pittsburgh/Command recording, but it only mentions "the seasoned team" from Fine Recording.
You are correct. The leaflet for the Capitol / Steinberg box shows that the every Steinberg recording for the label was done in Syria Mosque.
The Toch Symphony #3 was recorded by Capitol in the late 1950's. And first released in Stereo on two track Capitol open reel tape. The list moderator of the Yahoo reeltoreel group has a copy. A great sounding recording. Excellent performance. I have heard that tape on his Ampex A 121 we restored. It has been in his family since 1958. His father and mother bought the machine used when it was about a year old.
I found a blog concerning the recent status of Syria Mosque in which the Capitol recordings took place. http://marykunzgoldman.com/2008/12/pits-in-pittsburgh.html
Interesting article, Jasujiro. They don't mention asbestos. Is that one reason these beautiful venues are being torn down? She also mentioned labor being the primary cost. Here in Chicago that would be enormous. Too bad either way. An acoustically beautiful venue is a joy to behold and half of the recording to me.
Asbestos has also been known to be an "out" for property owners who (secretly or publicly) want to get rid of a building. In many cases, if asbestos is properly contained, it's not a problem. Heck, the store where I worked in college had all-asbestos flooring, so they just keep a nice wax coating on it, and all is well.
that is such major lolz that the 35mm everest lps are all really cut from a freaking dub to regular tape for the cuttin mster
The (largely excellent) Everest CDs released by Omega/Vanguard in the 1990s were actual mag film transfers, no?
Big fan of Everest and Mercury 35mm recordings here in particular, Rudolf Schwarz's Mahler 5 on Everest and Starker's Schumann, Lalo and Saint Saens cello concertos on Mercury. The CD reissues from the early nineties sound awesome, Mahler on the 1995 Everest Records SBM CD (William Blake's The Ancient of Days on the cover) and Starker on the 1991 Mercury CD. The recent CD reissue of the Mahler sounds terrible (different cover). Avoid like the plague!
This discussion reminds me a lot of past experiences of mine (sorry if slightly off topic). I used to work in film post-production in the late 80s early 90s. We had what was called the "machine room" where anywhere from 18 to 24 dubber machines ran 35mm sprocketed 6-track mag tape. These machines would run in sync with the 35mm picture film in order for the sound mixer to mix the film sound down to a 2-in 24-track analog master tape. That machine would run in sync with the rest using smpte timecode. Quite a process, all analog, all mechanical running in sync via this 35mm sprocketed medium (all except for the last link using the 2-inch mag tape). Amazing stuff when I think back on it. I will say the 6-track sprocketed mag tape produced damn good analog sound! Of course today all this has been replaced with digital methods, but this is how film sound happened all the way into at least the mid 90s and some past that. Really fun, sometimes very stressful, but what a sight and sound to be part of this mixing team creating then state of the art motion picture audio. Good stuff!
