Music Matters--Why No Cecil Taylor, Sam Rivers, etc.?

Listened again to these next two, THANKS MICHAEL

 

Thanks for the reply. I just want to provide another prospective. I really don't like spending a lot of money on duplicates. Unlike many people on this forum, I'd much rather not have many versions of a title -- I just want one good version and to be done with it. I'm going to pick up the Classic titles but then it will only be with much pain that I would pick up the Music Matters version. That would be $80 per title! If I knew your version were coming out in the next year or so, I'd sit tight with my cheap CD until the Music Matters showed up.

I guess what I'm saying is that one thing you can do is differ to the Classic Records version, but it is not clear to me that that would lead to more sales than if you go head-to-head right now. Of course, you know the business angle of these things better than me. I'm just sharing how it plays out for me.

It is also worth noting that Classic Records only has two Bud Powell albums available: Bud! and Time Waits, leaving the other three Blue Note volumes.

Anyway, I think I speak for many of us here in saying that I really appreciate your putting your own money into this project. You are bringing a lot of musical joy a lot of people. I really appreciate it! Do what makes financial sense and I'll hope that eventually Bud Powell does.

 

Well, Steve, I hope I am wrong, but if the Music Matters license for these Blue Note LPs is 5K, I doubt that they will sell out many of these titles. I hope Joe at least sells over his break-even point.

I would have thought that EMI would have cut Joe a break here. 5K 45 rpm LPs? That's a lot! It's not like he's trying to sell anything that EMI wants to sell themselves. They don't have to do much work, just print out the contract. 5K shouldn't be the minimum for them to print out a piece of paper.

I guess it's no surprise that many new reissue labels disappear as quickly as they often do. Water Music has to sell 5,000 copies of that Eddie Gale CD? No wonder they haven't reissued anything else in a couple of years. Mighty Quinn is probably done too. They even went the extra distance to create artwork for the Harold Land CD.

 

yeah, i know and i respect differing tastes (well, usually). what i i don't repsect are comments like "dissonent garbage". free, or avant garde (how "avant garde" can something 40 years old be?) or whatever you want to call is merely a logical evolution of jazz tradiotion, nothing more or less. some of it is great, some is not so great.

i do tend to bristle when people equate sales numbers to quality. it's cheap and easy and totally irrelevant. the merest glance at any billboard chart since there was such a thing will show you there's no correlation in either direction.

so what i'm saying is like what you like, and if you're tastes are those of the majority be happy that the laws of economics dictate that what you like will be easily available. that doesn't mean you have to dis the music of those whose tastes are in the minority. those people have enough to do fighting to hear the music they love and supporting those artists that mean something to them.

my favorite britney record is whatever one that's not playing at the moment.

 

if part of the appeal of these lp reissues is sound quality, perhapes the less than stellar quality of some of the earlier powell sides makes them less than great candidates for the audiophile market?

 

it's probably like the rare book market. the guy who's going to pay hundred/thousands of bucks for a great gatsby first edition is not the same guy who is going to walk into barnes and noble and buy a paperback edition of the same book, or even a fine leather binding of that book.

 

i think cuscuna produed those records himself, so you'd hope he'd have some emotional investment in doing it, kind of like when they kept the woody shaw box in print until it ran out, which took forever.

it's probably an indication why mosaic puts out so much swing era music now-it sells. not that i'm complaining, i love it. but you have to wonder if some of the other stuff they do is really moving that many copies. gerald wilson? good music, but..

 

They can't keep a set in print if the lease expires before the set sells out. I'm guessing the Shaw set lease was exceptionally long and allowed it to sell out - if it really did sell out, that is.

 

i'm under the impression that that one set got some special dispensation, (maybe the lease was renegotiated or something), because cuscuna wanted it to be in print until all the possible copies were sold. i think he was close friends with woody shaw and it was kind of in honor of his memory and friendship.

i bought it when it was running low and i'm very glad i did.

 

This is where I'm coming from too. As much as I'd like to have every one of these 45 rpm sets, I won't play the "buy yet another version of an album you own" game. Because I'm not a newby jazz fan, most of the titles on these reissue lists are already in my collection. Some are original deep groove pressings, others are later pressings or they are on cd. If a title I have on cd is really special to me, I will sometimes buy a vinyl copy too. Even though it sounds like these new reissues could be the best version available, I'm not obsessed enough to feel like I have to own the best version of every album I want or already own. I do plan on buying some of the titles on the Music Matters list, but they will be the less popular titles and I can only hope that the company sells enough of the other titles to be able to release the ones I want. You're fighting the good fight Joe and jazz needs people like you to stick their necks out. I really appreciate what you're trying to do, even though I haven't bought one of the records yet.

 

Me three.

I don't think there's a Blue Note session that I don't own or have owned on CD or LP. It's very hard for me to justify re-buying these titles on 45 rpm LPs for $50 a piece - not just to myself, but to my budget manager i.e. my wife.

 

Me four.

Yet, there are still a handful of titles in this series that I will buy. They are favorites, and being such, I will endeavor to own the best sounding version I can. Still, more more power to Joe and the gang, I applaud the effort.

 

In reply to the last three of you: these things do sound amazing. If you have an original pressing or (perhaps) the new Classic records, I'd say it is probably reasonable to sit tight. But if you've got a CD or a later (post 60's) pressing, I'd say it is well, well, worth it to pick up the MM 45. I think you'll find it a massive sonic step up.

Or perhaps here is another way to put it: if you spent under $15 the first time around, I would consider that a taste to decide what you like, but there is a lot more sound available out there.

 

I love the sound of the mid-80's TOCJ CDs. I have most of the Blue Note catalog on these TOCJ CDs. They sound great. These 45 rpm LPs may sound better, but it may be better for my wallet if I never find that out.

 

Kevin,

Are you referring to the "Blue Note Works" TOCJs that were released by Toshiba in the 1990s or the Japanese Blue Note CDs from the 1980s with CP35 and CP32 prefixes?

 

I am referring to the Blue Note Works series. For some reason, I seem to remember buying several of the first batch in the late 80's. I could be wrong. Those first ones were "only" 16 bit masters. I remember when I used to think that this meant they were inferior.

 

As far as I know the first "Blue Note Works" CDs were released in 1993. The last non-TOCJ Toshiba/EMI CDs were released in the early 1990s; for instance the CJ28 series was issued in 1990.

 

I wonder if any of the 3 Dizzy Reece titles were considered for 45-rpm treatment? Board searches don't yield much on him, although I did find a 2004 post in which someone was recommending to Steve his 'Asia Minor' Prestige date for Fantasy 45 series consideration. Not 100% sure about this, but 'Star Bright' seems to be the only Reece title to be released by Classic Records (200 gr) and they did a fine job. That's probably the most popular of his BN output, although 'Soundin' Off' with the great Doug Watkins ...and 'Blues In Trinity' aren't too shabby either. IIRC, 'Blues in Trinity' was recorded by someone other than RVG in London or Paris and then Rudy 'futzed' with the tapes stateside...not that it matters though. It would be nice to see 'Soundin' Off' get picked up....is there a 'Future Music Matters Releases Wish List' thread?

 

Now that Dolphy's Out to Lunch has sold out faster than any of the 10 Music Matters LPs issued before it dating to November 2008 (including stellar titles like Cool Struttin' and Back to the Tracks), can Joe and co. please reassess the market for free jazz on vinyl in USA ca. 2010?

 

Good question.

I just fell off the wagon and started to get back into analog sources. And the first lp I picked up was Out to Lunch -- luckily Elusive Disc had the Music Matters 45rpm edition still for just a 10 dollar premium.

Next up will be the forthcoming Andrew Hill.

 

when i see all this names: sam rivers, dolphy, hill. that's exactly why i think freddie hubbard is a greatest trumpetist than lee morgan. much more wider than him in expression: hear contours or out to lunch or dialogue!!! show me where lee (that i like too) has this ability !!!