Music Matters--Why No Cecil Taylor, Sam Rivers, etc.?

I think that all 3 of these boxes were issued at the 5000 copy limit. It might have been 3500 for the Mingus.

Mosaic has tried to keep the licensed quantity down for years. It's the record labels that have been pushing them higher. It has never been their goal to keep every set in print forever. They went the limited edition route so that they could get to as many under-appreciated artists' catalogs as they possibly could. Back catalog prevents that. They don't have the capitol to have 200 box sets in print all the time.

 

I meant total sales for Coltrane's mid-60s output, not per title. This is something I read from a source I considered reliable (probably academic), though I don't recall at the moment. If it comes to me or I come across Impulse sales figures I will certainly post.

 

I'll pre-order the whole set if you decide to go this route. I highly prefer 33 rpm LPs.

 

It is a hard thing. The first thing is that I want to see them succeed commercially. I'm actually somewhat worried about the pacing here. Some more adventurous music might help keep the series feeling fresh and alive once you hit 20 or so.

I'm a subscriber right now and enjoying it but I could easily see quitting after 10 or so if they start to feel too similar. You need to keep variety to make it worth $110/month -- a good amount of change.

The thing that is really shocking to me is no Bud Powell. He is hardly a completely out there musician, but he is unique and amazing. He's the blue note musician the interests me most, probably.

 

if the market for the more avant garde stuff is smaller, then wouldn't it cost less to license or lease it?

 

I hope the break-even point is less that 2500!

 

I was quoting the limit stated in the booklets. I wasn't aware that that Mosaic had the right to issue more.

 

Even I heard somewhere, somehow, that Love Supreme is one of the best selling jazz titles and has gone 'platinum' over the years. Of course, this could be a jazz myth.

 

Ah, so you're a Britany fan, too? that's a lot of dissonance for one brain

seriously, music tastes differ

this forum points it out 24/7/365....I get all the avant guard I want listening to the Junior High Band warming up....

so, let's agree to disagree on this tiny sliver of jazz.

BTW what's your favorite Britany cd? (oops, thread crap)

 

I'm not trying to burst your bubble, and Lord knows I'd love to make some money from these records and so would the musicians. But seriously, have you known anyone to pay those prices, or merely seen the records listed at those prices? If I go to amazon.com, for example, I can find alternative sellers offering Just the Facts and Pass the Bucket for $150, while in the meantime the record is still in print and available from either cadencebuilding.com or downtownmusicgallery.com for $12, in stock.

The prices you see quoted at Gemm, Ebay, and the like are not, IMO, what's actually being paid for those albums.

If I had to estimate, I'd say that any new Cecil Taylor record is going to sell maybe 7500 copies. I don't know that there is an intersection between CT listeners and fans of the 45 rpm audiophile issues. I think you'd get a better response to finding the master of Spring of Two Blue J's and putting it out on redbook CD. Besides, as that poster long ago observed, and correctly, Cecil's music won't fit on a 45 rpm side.

 

Exactly my thought. If Mosaic won't do it, I doubt Arista will ever reissue their Braxton catalog.

 

It seems to me, IMHO, that the way to get other titles eventually released is to BUY THE ONES GETTING RELEASED NOW!

Joe and company, as previously stated, have their life savings into this venture, and they deserve our support.

The best scenario I can think of is Joe makes money, other music people notice, and we start getting the other Jazz lps mentioned, or maybe even a set of 100 Rock lps done properly.

If these don't sell as planned, I think we're done. But, I also think that's a long shot, if how quick the first 1,000 of Art Blakey went is an accurate indication.

 

Hi there,

I love Bud too. The reason we didn't include these is that Classic just put these out recently....too recently for us to release these so soon. Perhaps we'll take a look at the Bud's after we get through the first batch. That would make more sense.

I know YOU would buy them. But, as Steve correctly points out, we need 2,499 more that would feel the same way.

You look at these issues differently when its your money on the line, trust me.

I would love to do some of these, but we'll need to give it some time.

cheers,

Joe

 

That one is easy. No.

 

Ouch. Certainly a penny wise pound foolish policy, since promoting their lesser knowns is what creates "breakout" back catalog artists like Nick Drake, say, but as long as that is the case, that will certainly color to reissue market.

 

P.S. On the Sam Rivers prices, I'm talking about long-playing black wax--the type that would be reissued. Check the ebay closed auctions if you don't believe me.

 

Is the high price due to popularity or is it due to scarcity? How many LP sets did Mosaic sell, anyway? 500? 250?

 

I think he's talking about the original Blue Note LP pressings. All of those are collectibles that go for high prices. I think Sushingla is the expert on the subject here, as well as J.A.W.

I trust Michael Cuscuna's evaluation of the potential market. He's actually been doing this since I've been in junior high school, probably.

All of us dream that our favorite unknown artist will become famous and have money showered upon them. Even better if you're the artist and the dream comes true.

 

Nick Drake was a British romantic folk/rocker who died young and tragically, leaving a meager recorded legacy.

Cecil Taylor is a prolific and iconoclastic afro-american avant garde composer and pianist who is actively performing at age 75 or thereabouts. He has released, as you know, literally hundreds of recordings in his lifetime.

I fail to see where there is any argument to be made that Taylor is ripe for rediscovery the way someone like Nick Drake was.

 

I must have missed those posts...thanks for taking the time to explain, Steve.

And from the Music Matters perspective, thanks, Joe.

It's not surprising that a big label is mostly interested in big money...no matter how much we love this music.

It's just fascinating to me that they can't build some rough intelligence into the pricing of licensing for various artists. It is also fascinating to see that they are not interested in basically a no risk business venture. What it seems like is that they have a situation where every cost and risk is passed onto guys like Ron and Joe. If EMI licenses based on quantity, they'll never run the risk that someone else makes the big money on a small artist turned big (in the case of someone, say, like Nick Drake). And wouldn't the legal documents for something like Blue Notes be quite routine? This is all probably silly thoughts...just thinking out loud here.

 

Exactly Ashlee. Rare record prices have very little, if any, relationship to the number of people who will actually buy a reissue.

Sometimes, there was a reason the record was rare. As I've mentioned, selling one rare record for a high price and selling 2,500 for $50 each are two completely different endeavors.

 

Amen brother!! The Music Matters team can never thank Michael enough!!