Miles Davis: Which versions of Agharta and Pangaea are on the new Japanese Blu-Spec?

I just checked on Agharta, it is not available as an inexpensive download.

http://www.amazon.com/Agharta-Miles-Davis/dp/B000026FQ0/ref=pd_bxgy_m_img_b

 

Is this because they're charging by the track?

 

Yes, $.99 a song.

 

I love digging up old Agharta threads...

Just want to confirm -- the recent Blu-Spec releases feature the same mix as the 2006 Japan "mini LP sleeves" release??

I've got the 2000 Japan release, and while it sounds fine, even my non-audiophile ears recognize the vast superiority in sound and mix of the original vinyl mix (I've got a Dutch pressing, which I've read is basically the same as the Japan mix -- and certainly better than the US vinyl mix).

But I've read that the 2006 Japan CD features the same mix as the original vinyl? Is this true? And is it also true that it's THIS mix which is on the Blu-spec release?

It's also funny because...I mean, wasn't this concert recorded on only two tracks? So how can there be so many different mixes?

I've got a Blu Ray player so it would be cool to play these Blu-specs on it, at least....has anyone here done so?

BTW -- the cheap Ama MP3 links above...if I'm not mistaken, those are just for the old, 1991 remix of the album. I've read that the 2009 US re-release of Agharta features the same remix as the old, inferior 1991 release. Again, not sure if that's true, but that's what I've read -- and that appears to be what you're buying from Amazon's MP3 site.

 

These are Blu-Spec CDs. They are not Blu-Ray discs. They are manufactured to higher tolerances than a regular CD, but in the end they are "regular" CDs (encoded at 16/44.) and a Blu Ray player will do nothing different regarding playback over a regular CD player. Play these in your BEST CD player - regardless of whether that is a Blu Ray player or not.

I have quite a few Blu-Spec CDs, and I feel they sound better than normally manufactured CDs (and I have the two Miles' titles mentioned in this thread, but I have yet to even open them).

 

I recently acquired a copy of the 2006 Agharta. It's the original vinyl mix. Sounds quite nice, actually.

 

I like my 2006 DSD remasters of both of these titles.

 

The versions in the recent "Miles Davis Complete Album Collection" sound great to me. Not sure if they are the same as the 2006 DSD versions, but the box is a relative bargain as opposed to purchasing any japanese imports at this stage.

I also have the 2000 DSD masters.

 

+1

 

Me too. They were a revelation compared to the previous edition I had, a 1990's issue.

 

+2

 

I listened the 2.

The 2006 DSD Japan Mini LP Edition, SICP-1230/31 have a different & inferior mix than the dutch vinyl pressing.

On the cd, there are a big (natural ?)"ambiance" reverb (I don't like, all the records lost power and sounds indistinct) and completely different mix of the drums for example.

 

I've been listening to Agharta/Pangaea a lot and I've got my hands on different mixes:

My introduction was with the 1996 Japanese remaster. To my ears this is the superior mix. The emphasis is on the bottom end, lots of bass and rhythms, the rest weaves in and out of the music naturally. It sounds heavy and unrelenting, monstrous.

I also got the 2009 mix from the new box set, this sounds more 'even', it seems every instrument is given the same amount of clarity. I kind of like it, but it sounds more muddy and not as driving as the 1996 mix.

I haven't tried the 2006 DSD mix yet, but that's about to happen.

All in all the 1996 mix is the best mix IMO.

 

Is that the '96 Japan disc with the "mastersound" sticker? I have that and it does not sound like the original US columbia vinyl mix at all, the vinyl has reverb and a nice sense of space, the 96 cd does not, it sounds shut in and the bass is eq'd up, which to my ears obscures what's going on with some of the other instruments. I'm Remembering why I took a bunch of those Miles Japan Mastersound cd's to used store back then, none of them sounded right to me.

 

The discs issued in 2000 are the full concerts (Agharta is ~10m longer, Pangaea ~3m longer) and do not sound the same as the vinyl issues. They are the same as the previous Mastersound editions, and that would be why your '96 edition sounds so different.

In 2006, Sony reissued them again, re-encoded using DSD. While Agharta remained the same, Pangaea was trimmed down by almost three minutes, presumably to match the original vinyl running time.

In 2009 both albums were remastered to match the original vinyl sound as closely as possible (all that reverb you remember). Agharta was 10 minutes shorter than the previous issues (and this version is in the Complete Columbia Album Collection), while Pangaea was about a half minute longer than the 2006 version, but still about 90 seconds shorter than the 2000 issue.

Strangely, the version of Pangea in the CCAC box is the 2000 edition. They apparently picked what they thought was the best-sounding master on an album-by-album basis. Quite often they were not the recent Legacy editions (like the '96 Japanese master of Bitches Brew as opposed to the 'butchered brew' version, or Big Fun, which has the Legacy bonus tracks but the master is the same as a Japn-for-Europe Mastersound edition I have).

So to get the vinyl sound of Agharta, you need the 2009 Blu Spec disc or the CCAC box.

 

Small correction to your incredibley informative posts - The CCAC Pangea is actually the same as the 1996 release, not the 2000 edition. The CCAC and 1996 DR's match exactly, the 2000 release sounds similar but appears to be a more dynamically crushed version of the 1996 master. (1 DR point less)

 

Is this a correct summary, then?

1991 - vinyl mix, first CD issue
Agharta
Pangaea

1996 - remix to full concert length
Agharta - full concert (+10min)
Pangaea - full concert (+2.5min)

2000 - slightly more compressed version of 1996 issue
Agharta - full concert (+10min)
Pangaea - full concert (+2.5min)

2006 - remastered using DSD
Agharta - same (+10min)
Pangaea - trimmed the 3 mins off to match original running time

2009 - remastered to match original vinyl sound
Agharta - 10 mins shorter than 2000 issue
Pangaea - 30 sec longer than 2006, 90 sec shorter than 2000

Complete Albums Collection: 2000 edition
Agharta - As 2009 edition
Pangaea - As 1996 edition

 

my guess is that a future definitive version of this leg of the tour would be a future bootleg series issue.

 

Hey, evilcat.
You seem to be very informed w/ regard to the MD Agharta & Pangaea recordings. Could I trouble you with a question? I posted this same question on a thread but no one replied. Essentially it has to do with 2 versions of Agharta and Pangaea I heard on Spotify (free), I have the Blu Spec 2's which are overall great, but on these spotify versions I've listened to (partially) I can hear everything Reggie Lucas plays which is awesome, since he's my favorite guy on these recordings.

I e-mailed Spotify but they were no help, so now I'm doing some detective work and trying to figure out which recordings these are. The versions they have show the japan artwork, so I'm pretty sure they are Japanese versions, but that's about all I know. The timings are respectively for Agharta - Prelude(part 1): 26:01, Prelude(part2): 6:34, Maiysha: 12:20, Interlude: 26:20, Theme from Jack Johnson: 25:31. For Pangaea - Zimbabwe: 41:48, Gondwana: 46:50. These timings may be off about 5 seconds give or take with their corresponding versions, as Spotify seems to cut off or add seconds to some albums. Thanks

 

Do you know if 2006 DSD is the same as the 2009 Blu Spec?

 

Yes the first Blu Spec CDs were actually released in 2008, thats when I bought Agharta and Pangea on Blu Spec. They use the 2006 DSD mastering.

 

Thanks, I'm gonna sound like a dummy, because I can logically deduce from previous comment or outright assertions that the 2006 DSD = 2008 Blu spec which = the 2013 Blu Spec 2. Would you say 2006 DSD = 2008 Blu Spec = 2013 Blu Spec 2. Sorry for the questions, I just gots to find the particular version I'm looking for.

 

Yes all 3 are the same mastering. The Blu spec 2 is just a reissue.

 

I think there's some mistakes there?

 

No problem - what though?