Miles Davis Kind of Blue Made in Austria CD

The e-bay gougers are us from SH forums, as seen during the Canadian Rubber Soul/ Help phenomenon...

 

a) The CD booklets I have clearly state "newly remixed".
b) Have a listen, and you'll definitely hear a different stereo spread, even different between the '92 Mastersound and the current issue from '97.

Maybe this is semantics that are clouding the picture somewhat, due to my imprecise language. I think it was the Columbia studio lingo to refer to the two tape machines used as "master" and "safety". Normally today we think of "master" tape as the final mix-down two-track tape, and a "safety" as a second generation copy of that. That's not what I was meaning when I said "master" and "safety" above.

Better, for this discussion, to call the decks the "primary" and the "backup" machines. Columbia's policy was to run two tape machines simultaneously during any recording session. For the KoB session these were three-track decks. Today these would normally be called the original un-mixed session tapes. The "primary" deck was running slow on the day of the side A session. The day of the side B session it was running fine. For both sessions the "backup" was running fine too.

Irving Townsend used the "primary" three-track to mix-down a version for the final album in 1959. I'll call the result the "original master tape" here. This was done on a deck running correctly, so the wrongly recorded "primary" sounded a quarter-tone sharp. I'm guessing at this point he did both a stereo and a mono version then, despite what Stereophile says, I only see references to two decks running at the original sessions, not four.

Every record and CD created between 1959 and 1992 used this same Townsend "original master tape". (some likely used second-gen copies of it, not sure there) You can call all these pressings, other then the first run, re-masterings of the original mater tape.

Now, in '92 for the Mastersound edition they decided to correct the speed error. Rather than adjust the Townsend "original master tape" they went back to "backup" three-track session tape that was recorded correctly. As Stereophile details in the article above this was done, for the SACD at least, by mixing the tracks down to a two-track analogue tape, then digitizing that. I do not know what process they used for the '92 and '97 re-issues, but to my ears they sound like a different stereo spread, so my guess is each was done separately.

I don't know what to call that besides a "re-mix"?

 

My 92 mastersound doesn't have the booklet (I have the long box). Nevertheless...duh. You're correct. I was forgetting that the safety tapes in question were 3 track tapes. However why didn't they just speed correct the original 2 track master for side 1 rather than re-mix? Has there ever been a speed corrected release (one of the Classic LPs perhaps?) that has done this rather than using a remix? Is it because the original 2 track masters aren't in such great shape and it's better to just re-mix from the safety tapes and create a new master?

I used to have the blue border CD but I gave it away years ago, so I only have the 92 gold , the 97 cd, the SACD and the Classic 200g -- all of which are speed corrected and presumably all remixed from the 3 track safety. Has anybody speed-corrected one of the CDs using the original mix to see how that impacts the sound?

 

I don't know right off how the post '92 vinyl pressings figure into this.

My Classic gatefold double LP, with both the original speed side A and the corrected one, plus the 45rpm Flamenco alt take, has a small note about this. It only says it "presents the first three songs at the correct pitch for the first time on LP". My quadruple single-sided 45rm re-uses the same gatefold cover, with a big ugly sticker on it indicating what it really is. My Classic single 180g, my 200g Quiex, and my 180g blue vinyl have replicas of the original cover with no special notes. Same for my Absolute Analogue 180g, and my Columbia 180g. All eleven of my other pressings pre-date 1992. (Did I say I was obsessive yet? Good! )

Were it me doing this, I would simply play the "safety" three track tapes with the correct speed directly into a mixing desk and from there into a cutting lathe. But then, I'm not a mastering engineer, so what do I know?

They used Scotch 190 tape, which is apparently quite durable. All of them are supposedly in fantastic shape, other than the speed issue.

As for what a corrected original mix would soul like, I'm afraid my sense of pitch is utterly non-existent. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to tell. Remember also that it took over thirty years for anyone to note the mistake.

 

I will gladly pay $5 for a nice U.S. CK 08163 CD. Of course, if someone feels the need to gouge, fire away. I need this disc for my collection!

 

Here is a veritable Kind of Blue Geek Out for your rainy monday afternoon:

The original session tape from session 1 (side A) This is the offending tape with the speed error.


Tape ID sheets from both sessions. Dept; "Pop"? I guess. . . . Producer; "IT" is Irving Townsend, Engineer; "FP" is Fred Plaut. "T1 NG per FP" pertains to the alternate first take of Flamenco Sketches. Track titles are written in after the fact.

 

Columbia 30th St NYC Studio B. The building was originally a Greek orthodox church. The control room pictured is upstairs in what was the balcony. Performance space was in the main church area, echo chamber downstairs in the cement basement.


Reservation sheet for the first session. Note that Lee Castle (and I guess, Jimmy Dorsey + orchestra?) also recorded in Studio B the same day. Imagine that in today's overproduced pop environment. Axl Rose take note!


Cannonball's music stand. I think this is the only photo from the sessions showing the written music score, such as it is.


Wonder what you get paid to sit in on one of the world's all-time classic albums? None of these guys received any royalties or advances for KoB, just the standard Musician's Union hourly rate. Davis, of course, made a mint off it.

 

These are Irving Townsend's mixing and mastering notes. Not that there was much to do, what with only one alt take, and no editing or overdubs. Note the working titles for All Blues "Africa" and Flamenco Sketches "Spanish". Notice also the mix-up that caused those two tracks to be mis-labeled on the first pressings. Davis didn't much care about titles for his pieces.


Finally here are some original international vinyl pressings, none of which I have ever seen in real life, but would love to own.


Sorry for going bonsai-geek on your thread there Peter. Hopefully we'll get your question answered about what mastering your Austrian disc is one of these days. . . .

 

I dig it all, man........

But I do not dig the fact that I couldn't play the 4 clips you uploaded.

Care to tell me how to do it?

 

FWIW, just found a CSCS series JPN. "Round About Midnight" CD, in mono, no less, and WITH OBI. Sounds great.

 

Do you know the release date of that one?

I just got the mid-1980s Japanese mono first pressing of 'Round About Midnight, CBS/Sony 32DP 510, and it sounds great.

As a matter of fact, all my Japanese Miles Davis first CBS/Sony pressings sound great.

 

What are you using to play 'em with?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if your Austrian CD uses one of the Japan masterings. Those '80s Austrian CD's are one of the best kept secrets around.

 

I only have Real Player on my computer.

 

Well, probably not anymore...., but yeah, I think you are probably right. The second Miles's horn came in, I looked up and said "what is this???"

 

I don't, but I will check the inner ring of the cd tonight. If this has 35DP in the inner ring, it will be my first.

 

Can't tell right off from their website just what it'll play. Hopefully it'll do .wav. Here they are:
http://www.deffeyes.com/temp/KoB-Flamenco-4clips-wav.zip
(24Mb)
Should also be able to use any burning app to create a CD with these.

Last resort will be .mp3s, anything that'll make noise should be able to play them:
http://www.deffeyes.com/temp/KoB-Flamenco-4clips-mp3.zip
(4Mb)

Are you getting them un-zipped OK?

 

'Round About Midnight was not released in the Japanese 35DP series, so there will be no issue with that number in the matrix. The 32DP was the first Japanese pressing.

 

I have a few '80's Austrian CBS CDs including KOB (several Miles, Dylan). They were the best digital issues back then (not harsh) - some still are.

 

Digital Audio Disc Corp. (DADC) was the first US pressing plant, opening in 1984. It was a joint venture between CBS and Sony, like the CBS/Sony CD plant in Japan. It is now all part of Sony. The DADC USA plant made/makes discs physically the same as the Japan plant, except for the center spindle markings.

DADC is now known as Sony DADC and includes all of Sony's CD pressing plants worldwide (USA, Austria, Japan, Canada, HK, Australia, Brazil, China, etc.).

'DIDP' is the number system Sony used to catalog the glass masters. DIDP=CBS popular music, DIDC=CBS classical music, DIDX (most common)=any master not for CBS Records. DIDY=Columbia House pressing, but usually has DIDX in the matrix.

The early CBS US discs that were pressed in Japan by CBS/Sony were reissued made by DADC and continued to have the Made in Japan tag on the inserts, while often adding often "Now Made in USA" on the white part of the back insert.

The early Columbia discs were labeled as "CBS", because if the discs were exported, given the few pressing plants, CBS owned the rights to 'Columbia' only in the USA and Canada at the time. They now own the Columbia trademark globally (bought from EMI in the other countries), except in Japan, where it is owned by Nippon Columbia (Denon).

Columbia used to be part of EMI years ago and when CBS took over US Columbia again from UK Columbia (EMI), they lost the rights to the Columbia trademark outside of North America. Funny thing is US Columbia begat CBS in the first place.

Nevertheless, this is one fantastic CD musically! One of my favorites.

 

Thank's for the detailed explanation. The wealth of information on this board is astonishing!

That is odd that my US made and sold disc doesn't mention Columbia in any place. Makes sense tho.

 

Thanks for the clips and welcome to the forum, Dongle. I'm always up for another KOB discussion. I had never heard the '87 cd before--it really is horrible. The blatant use of noise reduction reminds me of the recent John Lennon Acoustic cd release. Being that you have so many versions of this record, I am curious as to which is your favorite stereo version. I will say that I am not a huge fan of the six-eye mono version. If the tapes do in fact still exist, I would love for Classic give us a 45 rpm version of the mono.

 

Honestly, I haven't carefully A/Bed all my vinyl copies. Or even played some of them. The blue vinyl Classic I'll probably never play. Been meaning to get a 12x24 frame for it, have the cover on the bottom, and the blue wax above it, like a gold record. This, by the way, is the only pressing of any record I've ever bought just to have, not to play. Also the most expensive record I've ever purchased, by far, and I got it new.

Several of my copies are nothing special, generic 80's pressings; US, Holland, France, etc. I have two six-eyes, one with the wrong track listings, both mono. Don't have a mono cartridge, but they sound pretty good. Not a modern "hi-fi" sound, but somehow more of a window onto the past. Hard to describe, I like it tho. I do have a stereo 2-eye. From what I remember, it's been a while, it was good but I don't recall it being the ne plus ultra.

For my Classics, the 45rm wins by a fair margin on sonics. The pressing isn't so quiet, this was an early Classic 200g. They had problems getting the vinyl to flow into the edges of the mold, and to make it worse on the 45rpms they concentrate the music band at the outer edge where the problems are. The sound itself is full of air and detail. No where else have I heard the sound of the studio walls, and the little ambient noises, so well. Good musicians they were, but they weren't exactly a quiet as church mice when not playing! Probably the best overall combination of mastering and pressing I have is the Classic double LP, with both the wrong and corrected side A, and the 45rpm alt Flamenco from '95. Back in the good old days of Classic 180g. I think I'm right in saying that was their first pressing of KoB? I'm afraid I simply can't remember the sonics of the Absolute Analogue, or the 180g Columbia discs at the moment. Sorry to be so vague. One of these days I'll devote a weekend to sitting down and comparing them all.

No vinyl version I've heard suffers from the "dentist drill" syndrome of the re-mixed and re-mastered CDs.

 

Interesting that you have a 200 gm 45 RPM Classic. I have the 180 gm 45 RPM set and thought that they hadn't ever released a 200 gm. version. In fact, I've been waiting for them to do so . . . Can't have too many copies of this record I go between the Classic 45 and the original six-eye stereo as being my favorites. The six-eye having a bit more of a focused placement of instruments versus the smooth, detailed and ultra-quiet presentation of the Classic 45.

 

Just to add my thanks for the clips and for the interesting discussion.

It's really funny hearing all this talk about the "dentist drill" horn sound on the '97 remaster. That was the first version that I owned and I thought it was supposed to sound like that. Even thought it was neat in a weird sort of way. You've got these kind of abstract, sometimes ethereal compositions and then this insanely piercing horn sound. It added a weird, visceral dimension to things. Anyway, then I got the SACD and went "Right. OK. This is not supposed to be like this." And, surprise, surprise: I think I now prefer the non-piercing version.

Geoff