Miles Davis Kind of Blue Made in Austria CD

I got the Hybrid SACD of Kind of Blue. My favorite version thus far.

 

Thanks, I'm going to find them right now! My dad had Miles Smiles LP when I was a tad younger and he always said it was one of his best sounding records.

 

I checked my Austrian "Miles Ahead." It is indeed stereo.

 

I bought a used Columbia Jazz Masterpieces version of Kind of Blue a few years ago and think it sounds dead. The original Japan-for-U.S. and Japan-for-Japan CDs, current remaster, and SACD all beat it in my opinion.

 

Keith, I can't wait to get one of those, then....

 

So, this here:

Is an actual scan of a made in Japan for the US market CK 08163 from '84.

I've got 4 CDs of this:
1984 - Japan for US Columbia - CK 08163
1987 - Columbia Jazz Masterpieces - CK 40579
1992 - Mastersound Gold - CK 64403
1997 - Legacy SBM - CK 64935
And I just counted, gulp, 18 vinyl copies. (obsessive, moi?) I've got the SACD, but only the single-layer, and no way to play SACDs at the moment. I don't have the DVD Dual Disc, but I hear that's not that great? I think that represents every digital master of this album, right?

I'll compare the four CDs I listed, using my favorite cut Flamenco Sketches:

CK 08163 definitely gets the nod here. Nice solid bass, although I hear a weird phasey tremolo quality to it on some deep notes. Nice airy quality to the room echo on the horns, some of which was added artificially courtesy of the Columbia echo chamber by the way. Tape hiss, but yeah, what are ya gonna do about that on this album? My Classic 45rpm pressing of this is more smooth and relaxed on the horns, with just as much bass, but CK 08163 is the closest.

CK 40579 is a joke. Not only sounds rolled off in the highs, but the lows too. And even the mids as well, if that's even possible? Upright bass sounds wooden. Piano tinny. Horns sucked dry. Weird swirling phasey sound to the brush cymbals, almost like a badly encoded mp3. About the only thing I can say good about this is it's not too harsh. Oh, and not much hiss.

CK 64403 has an oddly aggressive hiss to it. Almost like aggressive high frequency digital dither. Very distracting compared to the hiss on the CK 08163, which is more broadband and forgettable after a while. Instruments overall on this one are clean, but a bit antiseptic. Somehow they managed to make the noise more annoying, and suck the life out at the same time. I realize noisefloor isn't important when compared to the quality of the music, but I can't seem to ignore it on this one. Is this Super Bit-Mapping at work?

CK 64935 has some good points and some bad ones. Tape hiss is similar to CK 08163, but still somehow a touch more aggressive. Bass is nice and solid, maybe even the pick of the bunch. Piano seems a little better defined than CK 08163. But, yikes is it harsh. Not bright as in a boosted top end. But a wincing digititus quality to the horns. The first note Miles really belts out with, at around 0:38, man it's like a dentist's drill. Frustrating, because although there are some things about this one that are technically "better" it's virtually un-listenable.

Just my opinions, of course, and only for tonight, probably. Don't mean to invalidate anyone else's opinions. To each his own.

I think these four are even different re-mixes of the original three track tapes, not just re-masterings, is that possible? They all seem to have a slightly different stereo presentation to me. CK 64403 being the widest, and CK 64935 the narrowest. All have different peak values, the oldest being the quietest, and the most recent the loudest. Oddly CK 08163 and CK 40579 have the peak during Cannonball's solo, CK 64403 and CK 64935 during 'Trane's. That would indicate a different mix to me.

 

Peter, I realize this is like kissing your sister, but would you like me to upload a short clip of CK 08163? Actually I could do all four I mention, as I just ripped them all. Might give us all a more concrete perspective. . . .

 

Great assessment! Welcome to the forum!



The early Japan for US CD has the same mastering as my second Japanese pressing 32DP 513, if I am not mistaken. Great mastering on that one, the best digital version I've heard so far (I haven't heard the first Japanese pressing yet).

 

Spectral analysis, first 45 sec of Flamenco Sketches.

1984 - Made in Japan for US - CK 08163:


1987 - Columbia Jazz Masterpieces - CK 40579:


1992 - Mastersound Gold - CK 64403:


1997 - Legacy SBM - CK 64935:


I should mention that just now when I compared these I was listened to the tracks ripped onto my harddrive. (foobar2000/Delta Audiophile 24-96/Creek OBH-11/Sennheiser HD 600) So I was not hearing differences in disc pressing, just the bits within. If that makes a difference to anyone.

 

Yes, I'd forgotten how nice it sounded. I got my copy new when CDs were still pretty rare. I hadn't actually compared all my copies back to back before. Glad I did. I won't be spinning the others anytime soon.

 

Let me amend that one. We can change our minds here, right?

After listening a second time through, I'd say that if I didn't have the '84 Japanese pressing I'd have to pick the '87 one that Peter likes. Yes, it has a veiled rolled off everything, and weird noise reduction artifacts, all my comments still stand. It's sins are mostly ones of omission tho. Both the later re-masters have that piercing, fingernails on the blackboard, sound added to the horns. How they managed to make a tenor sax sound as annoying as a dentist's drill I don't know, but they did. So much so that I can't relax and get into the music. With the '87 I can, for all it's faults. The piano and bass I actually prefer on the '97 remaster, even over the '84 Japanese one. This music is all about the horns tho, and I can't live with them being off.

Luckily the '84 CK 08163 has it all (for me) clarity and smoothness. It's still far and away the winner.

 

dongle, welcome aboard, and thanks for the detailed reviews. I've always liked the current remaster best, but I do agree that it is a tad aggressive. What I'd love to hear is a cross between the original Japanese pressing and the current remaster. We'd probably need Steve for that one, though.

 

The matrix number of my early Japan-for-U.S. CK 08163 pressing is 35DP-62 11A4, which indicates that it has the same mastering as the first Japanese pressing 35DP-62.

 

Always seems to come down to that. An older more sympathetic flat transfer, but maybe casually done from not such a great source. Or a more carefully done, but too aggressive, master from better tapes. Sure we can wish for the best of both worlds, but the reality so often is that we need to choose which flawed version upsets us the least.

 

Here's a scan of the original Japan-for-U.S. disc. It's very rare, but definitely worth tracking down.

 

Gaak! Just realized my disc is not made in Japan!

The booklet and tray insert clearly states; "Record manufactured in Japan by CBS/Sony, Tokyo Japan. / Distributed by CBS Records / CBS Inc. / 51 West 52 Street, New York, NY" I'd always believed that.

The silver disc itself has pressed into the clear section right around the hole; "Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp" This is not printed, just an impression in the clear plastic. Then in the silver ring just outside the clear bit; "DIDP 50062" This in those reflective letters you have to hold at just the right angle to see. No other info in the center. Printed on the disc label, where you normally find the catalogue number it has; "CK 08163" (same number as on the jewel case insert spine) and on the next line "DIDP 50062"

There are no copywrite dates anywhere, disc or inserts. Outside of the booklet I posted, inside is blank, no liner notes or credits anyplace. No "produced by" - no mixing, engineering, or mastering credits - or Bill Evens essay. Only names are the players on the front cover, isn't that odd? Bar code on the inserts is 7464-08163-2.

So, what the heck have I been listening to?

This was purchased new by me in the mid-80's in a shop in North Jersey. So, it's not any kind of Ebay counterfeit. This was well before I ever saw the ridiculous "purple left-handed trumpet player" CK 40579 cover, so it must have been before '87. In any case it's a very, very, different mastering from that one as you can see from my spectral screenshots.

Anyone have a DIDP 50062 disc out there?

Where and what was "Digital Audio Disc Corp" I assume one of the first US CD plants?

 

I can't read yours Keith, what does it say under the "CK 08163" and above the CD logo? I'll scan mine in a sec. . .

 

Here's my magical mystery disc:

Booklet, this folds over but the back side is blank:


Jewel case tray insert:


The disc itself, which does not agree with the packaging:

Matrix info again is; "Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp" and "DIDP 50062" No dates or credits anyplace.

Could this be the same mastering as the early Japan/Japan for US ones? Sounds like it from the descriptions of the sound. It's certainly none of the other commonly known masterings. . . .

 

dongle, my disc has "DIDP 50062" beneath the catalog number. You have the first U.S. pressing that came a bit after my Japanese pressing. The inserts are the same for the two copies. I was aware of that U.S. pressing and have been looking for it. It's tough to track down like the Japanese pressing. My guess is that they have the same mastering.

 

Ok, third CD pressing, first mastering. Thanks, I feel better now.

 

What's the total time of the US-made early disc?

 

According to Foobar; 45:09.000 (119466900 Samples)

According to my arthritic old Denon; 45:11

No pre-emphasis BTW.

 

Here's peaks from EAC, and total running time from foobar:

-------------------------
1984 - First US - CK 08163
Total time; 45:09.000 (119466900 samples)

Track 1
Peak level 67.6 %
Track 2
Peak level 68.0 %
Track 3
Peak level 62.7 %
Track 4
Peak level 67.0 %
Track 5
Peak level 58.3 %
-------------------------
Col. Jazz Masterpieces - CK 4057
Total time; 45:09.160 (119473956 samples)

Track 1
Peak level 99.3 %
Track 2
Peak level 99.8 %
Track 3
Peak level 60.1 %
Track 4
Peak level 71.9 %
Track 5
Peak level 65.2 %
-------------------------

Weird how 1 & 2 almost clip on CK 4057, yet 3, 4, & 5 are similar levels to CK 08163.

 

My second Japanese pressing shows 45:10 on my one CD player and 45:12 on my other CD player.

Based on my experience, many Japanese CD's show 1 second more total time compared to European/US CD's with the same mastering.

I would assume that the second Japanese pressing uses the same mastering as the first Japanese pressings (which is also the same as the Japan for USA pressing).

 

The timing of my pressing is 45:11 on my CD transport.