Miles Davis circa 1973-75

Compared to many here, I'm no audiophile, but I did import the Japanese CDs of Agharta and Pangaea and they blow the old Columbia discs out the water. The difference is stunning.

 

We could probably have an entire thread on which ones you have. I have a Pangaea from '85, 50DP 239-40. Timings are 41:48 and 46:51 respectively. My only basis of comparison is a Japanese LP set that seems to be about 30 seconds shorter. I haven't A/B'ed these ever. It must have been remastered since '85.

Most everything I've read about Agharta says there was never a CD issue that had as good sound as the LP, but I don't know if that meant both import and US.

 

I don't have the CDs at hand as they're in London, but my original CDs were the thick double box ones with Columbia Jazz Masters in the top right-hand corner. I upgraded to these:

http://www.amazon.com/Pangaea-Miles...d_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203478496&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/Agharta-Miles...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203478589&sr=1-2

 

Does it have a white spine (white fatboy jewel case)?

I picked up the Japanese CDs of Pangaea, Agharta and Live-Evil (all with the white boxes) before they had any domestic releases so never bothered with them when they did come out.

 

Pete Cosey found at these two links:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=
61852695


http://www.burntsugarindex.com/Home/Disc.htm

 

Yeah I have been checking this out. Nothing conclusive.

 

Affirmative.

Can anyone say for sure if and by how much the Japanese CD's are longer in duration? My Japanese Pangaea is within 1 minute of my Japanese LP.

 

When were these released?

 

I have the 2006 Japanese CD's of Agharta and Pangaea (they're in the mini-LP packaging). Pulling them up on my ipod at work, I see the following:

Agharta:

Prelude (Pt.1 & Pt.2) - 32:29
Maiysha - 12:20
Interlude/Theme from Jack Johnson - 51:36

Pangaea:

Zimbabwe - 41:51
Gondwana - 47:05


These Japanese releases sound outstanding.

 

My '85 Pangaea, also Japanese, clocks in within 17 seconds.

My US Agharta LP clocks in at 45:35 for Preludes and Maiysha, and 51:47 for Interlude/Theme from Jack Johnson. So much for internet rumor, at least with respect to Agharta. Of course, it's possible that there's another Japanese mastering with more material.

 

Here are the timing differences for the Sony Mastersound issues, info from the "Miles Beyond" book by Paul Tingen:

Agharta SRCS 9128/9: Maiysha -13:06, faded out at 12:19 all other editions
Wili -25:48, faded out at 16:51 all other editions

Pangaea SRCS 9130/1: Ife -18:57, faded in at 00:18 all other editions
Wili -30:42, faded out at 28:10 all other editions

These are the ones I have. I'm not sure about the newer Japanese issues. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for a comprehensive box set someday, however dim a possibility. I didn't expect the "Complete On The Corner", so...

 

I don't have the mastersound issues, and I've never seen a mastersound edition of those titles. I know Tingen is reliable, but Wili is a track title from Dark Magus, not Agharta or Pangaea. And Ife doesn't appear on either title's track list. I'll concede that Miles mixmastered all the themes he was playing during those years, so it's possible that Tingen is referring to particular sections on those discs that he identified. The track times, disc times, and side lengths that I cited come directly from my disc player or the booklets/sleeve/liner notes. Give me something I can relate to.

 

A blistering, frenetic, drug-addled era of Miles that was brilliant.

 

I'm not sure whether you know that there is a Master Sound series in Japan (has been for some years) that has nothing to do with the gold CD series from a few years ago (if that is the source of any confusion), and features a black square logo on the obi with Master Sound in gold letters under a picture of circles emanating from a point.

evilcat already covered this on page 1 when he wrote:

"The Japanese CDs of Agharta and Pangaea are uncut. You get about 15/20 mins extra music between the two albums.

That said, the ltd reissue from late last year sounds (slightly) better, but replicates the cuts from the original LPs."

So, it looks like the mini-LP version matches the old albums/CDs, the new jewel case edition is longer. Here's the info from the Miles Ahead discog. site:

http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Disco.aspx?id=Agharta

Disc 1
1 Prelude (M. Davis) [Funk] 32:35
2 Maiysha (M. Davis) [incomplete] 12:20

Disc 2
1 Interlude/Theme from Jack Johnson (M. Davis) [incomplete] 51:56


http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Disco.aspx?id=Agharta2

Disc 1
1 Prelude (M. Davis) [Funk] 32:33
2 Maiysha (M. Davis) 13:08

Disc 2
1 Interlude/Theme from Jack Johnson (M. Davis) 60:46


and for Pangaea:

http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Disco.aspx?id=Pangaea

Disc 1
1 Zimbabwe (M. Davis) 41:44

Disc 2
1 Gondwana (M. Davis) [incomplete] 46:48


http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Disco.aspx?id=Pangaea2

Disc 1
1 Zimbabwe (M. Davis) 41:38

Disc 2
1 Gondwana (M. Davis) 49:42

 

I have a Mini-LP version of MasterSound with the long version of Agharta so it does not have to be a jewel-case edition. My version is from mid-90´s.

 

So much for that theory!

 

I have a Japan CBS SONY cd of Get Up With It housed in thick jewel case, no fat boy type.
Long time ago, I had the US vinyl. But AFAIR it was noisy for its very quiet passages and it seemed that the side one couldn't hold its duration well (30 minutes?). So, though I have not done AB comparison, I love the sound of the CD now.

I'd like to hear the other Japan CDs of GUWI but it is now very hard to find out most of Miles' early pressing CDs in Tokyo.

 

Sorry ATR, I was just quoting from the book to give his specifics on the tracks. You're right, he breaks them down into sections; I should have also put the timings from my actual discs. I have the mini-lp styles that lazarus mentioned.

Agharta: Disc 1
1. Prelude -32:33
2. Maiysha -13:10
Disc 2
1. Interlude/Theme From Jack Johnson -1:00:48

Pangaea: Disc 1
1. Zimbabwe -41:42
Disc 2
1. Gondwana -49:46

 

Agharta/Pangaea

Hi folks, to clarify the Agharta/Pangaea situation....

There was a Mastersound reissue in Japan from 2001 which contains the full registration of the concerts. It sounds great. If you go to hmv.co.jp you will find both albums there and they are easily available.

In 2007, there was a series called the Original Jacket Collection, which was released both as independent disks and a 37-disc box set (see here). This was extremely limited. Some guy's selling it on eBay for a few grand, but you won't find most of the discs elsewhere.

This version replicates the original LP edits and sound, and was supervised by Suzuki Tosio, the original recording engineer. Sound-wise, there's more reverb on this version than the standard.

For reference, the OJ collection version is SICP 1230/31 and SICP 1232/33.
The running times are:
Prelude 32:29
Maiysha 12:20
Interlude / Theme From Jack Johnson 51:36

Zimbabwe 41:52
Gondwana 47:05

The standard Japanese version is SRCS 9128-9 and SRCS 9130-1.
The running times are:
Prelude, part 1 & 2 (Funk) 32:33
Maiysha 13:10
Interlude/Theme from Jack Johnson 60:48

Zimbabwe 41:38
Gondwana 49:46

Sorry if I've replicated info already provided.

 

So it looks like about 9-10 extra minutes for Agharta, mostly on the end of Jack Johnson, and a bit more than 2 minutes for Pangaea, mostly on the end of Gondwana. Correct me if you will, but my recollection is that those records end with percussion interludes that in the actual performance may have built back up to a crescendo (which may or may not be on the discs, could be they just fade out as they do on the shorter versions) or simply occurred after Miles and the rest of the band left the stage. Nice to hear, yes, but essential to track down? Up to you. On the other hand, if they're 2006 DSD remasters that would mean that SACD's (I'm pretty sure they must exist, if only in Japan) probably have these longer tracks. If they're ever issued, then I would bite. Thanks for your informative post. I had seen that box before, but forgotten about it.

 

For anyone who's still interested, it's the unbelievably expensive mymusicfix who's selling the complete jacket collection. If you search for Agharta or Pangaea import on amazon you'll see a price in the two grand range, which is for the entire collection.

Individually, both of these two disc sets are available on ebay for less than $44.

If you don't have any versions of either one, that may be a good option for you. Both of these sets have firmly established themselves in electric jazz history as iconic releases. For many years Pangaea had more cachet critically, most likely because it was only available as a Japanese import. Currently, critical consensus seems to be that Agharta is the stronger of the two performances.

 

They're each great in their own way. Which ever one I'm playing is my favourite

Apparently Miles was sick during the Pangaea concert.

 

Concerts were on the same day. Miles had a bad hip during that period of his life and was addicted to opiates. Granted, I've never read the details of Miles health on that particular day, but the pacing and compositions of both performances is quite different, which I believe is the reason the shows are so different.

 

I like both versions. Additional material occurs at the start of the recordings, too. Reinserts the surrounding concert ambience by including crowd noise and warm-ups. For example, the first drum beat on Side A of Agharta occurs 6 seconds in to the record on the original, and 10 seconds in on the full version. Maiysha is just extended drums/congas at the end of the track. The ends of disc 2 is just effects and atmosphere, but that's no bad thing.

The easily available reissues from 2000 and 2001 (each £15 on HMV Japan) are the full concerts. The limited DSD's from last year are the album length versions. You'll find them somewhere, but I'd expect to pay inflated prices.

The problem is you never know which you'll get. I found an even older Mastersound 'LP sleeve' CD on eBay, but have no idea regarding sound quality or track lengths on that version.

 

You got me on this one, but when the dust settles I'll have the limited DSD as well as the '00 reissue from HMV, plus my open reel dub of the original US CD issue and a US LP issue. That should do it for my Agharta fixation.

I misunderstood your post and thought the DSD limited edition was the unedited version, but that's certainly not your fault. At any rate, these two new ones will be interesting to compare, as you pointed out that there are some differences in the sound.

Over the weekend I had a chance to listen to both Agharta and Pangaea, as well as Big Fun and Live at Philharmonic (an underrated live double set). Agharta, recorded in the afternoon, has more variation within the music whereas Pangaea is a blow out on disc one and quiet on disc two.

As I said, Miles had painful hip degeneration and was addicted to painkillers at that time. Many things are possible to account for the difference in the performances, but I would venture a guess that the number one factor given his physical impairment was fatigue. Nonetheless, I've always considered both of these sets indispensable.

Happy listening.