MFSL Blind Faith – Ultradisc vs. Ultradisc 2

Perhaps not. I really don't care for these "my system is better than yours" comments. FWIW (very little IMO) I have a $3500 Cary SLI-80 intergated, a Sony 555ES SACD player and Paradigm reference speakers. My point is my equipment is plenty good enough to hear any differences between UD1's and UDII's. In any event my system is worth much more than your 1985 Hyundai

 

Let me pull mine out.


Mike

 

Chris, I don't know why your system doesn't expose the way mine and others who do have different systems does because I've never heard it. My suggestion was to imply checking out other systems with the 2 CDs to see if it's something else you might be missing with the familiarity of your own system only. Your equipment looks fine BTW so I wasn't projecting what you originally thought at all, but there's still some reason for it. When was the last time you've tried another IC or speaker cable? Just a thought and my equipment's worth more than my car too.

 

Hey, maybe we're looking at this the wrong way! Maybe your system adds something that isn't there. In the war between empiricism and your golden ears/Super-Clarifying-Heavy-Laser-Optical-Notation-Gidget, I think the deck isn't exactly stacked in the favor of the latter.

 

If that's the case then so do a lot of other members systems and not one of us has exactly the same systems. Also, if this were the case there would not be those UD2's that sound perfect and there are, but just not the ones that have UD1 counterparts that I've compared and it is most that were available FWIW. There are even some that are very very close to one another. Elton John Honky Chateau comes immediately to mind.

No need to be snide.

 

I have often wondered if "The Nightgorts" system is a tad on the bright side overall. He finds a lot of recordings to be bright that I do not. It would be interesting to listen to other member's setups and just kick back and compare these UD's (There are no UDI's) and UDII's.

 

The null test will absolutely detect that. If a disc has 0.1db added at, let's say 12K, it will detect it. ANY different in EQ, volume, processing (no noise, etc.), will show up every time. The null test is our friend Dave. It keeps us from wasting money on expensive OOP discs.

 

Don't believe so, everything Steve has done, well almost everything, doesn't sound bright at all. Most early Japanese, USA, Canadian and W. German pressings don't sound that way either plus there are a lot of UDII's that sound not at all bright on my system. It's honestly an album by album situation for me.

 

The only UD and UDII I've ever compared was The Moody Blues " Day's of the Future Passed". On my modest system (under 10k) I thought the Japanese made UD sounded better. The UDII sounded less detailed and not as dynamic as the UD IMO. The difference was not great but it certainly was significant enough that I try to buy first pressing UD's if I have a choice. I try to get the best possible sounding disc of anything I care to listen to. So the bottom line for me is, on at least one MFSL CD I have heard a difference. YMMV.

Mike

 

One of the members here has (had) a site up that had WAV clips from the UDI & UDII Dark Side of the Moon and on every song I chose the UDI, without knowing which was what before hand. I had never even heard either MoFi CD issue up until then. I did the comparison with a $50 pair of Sony earbud earphones (which are not exactly the stuff an audiophile's wet dreams are made of) plugged into my laptop and even under those circumstances there was no comparison. The differences were not subtle. It's been quite a while since I've made the comparison, so I don't remember all the specifics, but I do remember the sound on the UDI clips being much more natural, better sense of proper rhythm/flow, better details, no gauzy top end like the UDII (which IIRC almost gave the impression of more upper treble, not less, but like I said it's been a while so I wouldn't swear to it), leaving a better picture into the proceedings, and into the music period. Wiped the floor with it, IMO. If the two discs used for those clips tested out as identical, then there's something we're not measuring IMO.

On the other hand, I once compared UDI (which I borrowed) & UDII (mine) copies of Sinatra's Songs For Swingin' Lovers (which they screwed up to begin with), and the differences I remember were slight at best. I remember having a slight preference for the UDI, but it was nothing to make me lose sleep over, or even bother tracking down a copy for that matter (and it's my favorite album of all time!).

 

I'm confused by your last statement. Where are these two WAV clips? If they're totally identical, then you cannot have heard any difference. If they're not identical...well, then either something happened during DAE or they were in fact pulled from two discs that gave different information.

 

Someone had made WAV clips of the songs from Dark Side of the Moon - a set from a MoFi Gold UDI and also a set from a UDII. He put them up on the internet, I guess on his own site. He doesn't tell you if the file is from the UDI or UDII beforehand - after you've finished listening you're supposed to be able to access another page of the site telling you the results. I remember having to e-mail the guy for the results though.

I made the last statement because I have no idea if each of those discs tested out as identical. IMO, if they did, there must be something lacking in the testing because the files from one disc were clearly better to my ears than from the other.

 

True story...

My first experience with the UD1/UD2 differences was when Gary and I met on the old DCC Forums some 5 years ago. Gary was in Vancouver and came by for a visit bringing along DSOTM UD2 and a few others for comparison. We compared it to my UD1 and all I could do was...


(FWIW this is the most extreme difference I've heard)

 

FWIW, I own copies of "Days" that are both UD's yet were pressed at different plants in Japan - Ultech and Superior. Perhaps we can start a thread comparing the sonic differences of same title UD's pressed at *different* Japanese plants...lol!

 

I am the guy.
The clips still are at my AV-forum site.

Andrew

 

So you extracted these with your soundcard while the CD was playing?

 

After examining all the files, I think it was a straightforward rip to the hard drive.

Is this correct Andrew?

 

I just tested four or five of the samples DutchManX posted. I take back my statement from earlier: these seem to be digital rips, and not re-records (the "Cool Edit Pro" statement confused me, but I guess you just meant you used it to *edit* the files).

Thing is, the files are exactly the same. The start/stop points differ, but you line them up and they cancel to silence. There's really no way the files could sound "different," in other words...there's no jitter here, and the data in the shared portions would seem to be identical.

 

Do the files from each disc sound the same to you, David?

 

I already deleted them, but I recall them sounding the same, and the one I null-tested ("Breathe") certainly *was* the same.

 

Now you made me do it. Here's one reason:

Steve's Steely Dan Aja:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=30824

 

Yes it is. EAC transfers digital data from CD-ROM directly onto hard drive without using soundcard.

 

Geeze Mike pointing out one won't cut it. You obviously missed where I was wrong about the UD2 Dave Mason: Alone Together and Steve told me so.

I'm as prone to the learning curve as much as anyone, but how many MFSL recommendations have you done based on what you've learned from Steve himself and how many UD1/UD2 actual listening comparisons to reach those conclusions?

 

So what do you think, then?