Maybe vinyl isn't for me

Based on the above.... vinyl clearly not for you. Computers? Mixers? huh?

 

Nobody should believe it. You're doing something right now that you weren't before. But you can't extract a signal where there was none before; perhaps you're adding some pleasant-sounding distortion.

 

If the DAC sounds amazing to you, there's no reason to upgrade it. Ditto for the Maggies. I suggest you live with these components for a while and only then decide if you are truly satisfied with the sound. I mean, you just got the stuff and you're already thinking about upgrading it? Chill out, man!

Seriously, the only "upgrade" I can think of is introducing a tube preamp into the mix--and only because you have been hankering to try some tubes.

 

My theory is that 16/44.1 is fine-grained enough that people can't tell the difference on anything but the highest grade of equipment IF the analog signal is faithfully reconstructed from the grains, which is something we're still getting better at doing. I think there are relatively very few people with an untouched digital signal path doing really high quality upsampling into an asynchronous DAC. I remember Barry mentioning that there is actually an upsampling algorithm better than the one I'm using. I don't think there is a good interface to it from Linux yet though. Can't remember the name.

I'm sorry my memory isn't working, but do you have Maggies or have you spent a lot of time with them, with and without tubes? I'm wondering how the Maggies interact with them.

 

Oh definitely, if your dealer can set up everything for you perfectly. That's great service indeed, which is not as common here in Hong Kong. But I think mastering the skills in setting up a turntable is part of the fun in playing vinyl.

And don't forget the efforts needed to maintain vinyls and the gears, e.g. keeping stylus and records clean, or handling records with great care.

 

So what, you expect a broken down 120 bucks tabel&cart with a flea market Lp to beat a 4 or 5 grand digital chain ß
You're losing sight of reality - vinyl is not a magic box where you simply hit play and you hear the sound of the universe like never befor. to get Vinyl to sound as good as a Hi rez file is pretty hard tpo do - it takes a decent tabel - P3/24 P5 VPI Clearaudio etc. or at least a DUAL 701 then add a cart in the 300 to 450 Euro region and get a Phono Stage that costs anout 250 bucks or more. Then set up everyting nicely, clean your records and make sure you got a good pressing. Some records will never sound as clean and high resolving like a CD, there are other qualities, which make Vinyl so special. It will take time to discover that, it won't come automatuc and most definitely not on a budget.
My DUAL 701 with a EVO III on a V-LPS can rival and beat my Primare CD player and my NAD CD player in most aspects, but surface noise. The same system with an Ortofon OM 10 won't . it might equal it n some aspects and some might even prefer that, but unless your cart is in the 350 plus region forget it..If you can spend so much on your digital chain, why not give Vinyl the same chance ? Well I got thousands of Vinyl records, so I can invest that..average copiies will never beat a great mastered CD. Some things never change. It take tlc and research to get audio to sound great, it seems you are impatient and try to find short cuts, in life there are no shortcuts.
merry christmas

 

Maybe vinyl isn't for you. Wavelength DACs are fantastic, I would just continue enjoying digital.

 

And ASYNC is nothing new. Gordon Rankin was the first one to implement it on his DACs (and then license it to Ayre), but there are many cheaper USB DACs that are capable of ASYNC- one of them being the E-MU 0404usb.

The good sound you're hearing out of the Wavelength isn't just due to the ASYNC.

So when someone in this thread said they had a great stand alone Ayre CD player it probably sounds better than Proton which is Wavelength's lowest end DAC.

 

If you are listening at hi bitrate files and want to get into vinyl, then you will have to ante up and buy at least a Rega P3-24 with a Clearaudio, Van DenHul, Lyra, or Shelter cart and move up to a decent phono stage like the Monolithic Sound or the Acoustec. It is not a fair comparison to look at hi bit rate files and have a $200 truntable combo played into a subpar phono stage. Another TT I would consider is the Marantz TT package at about $1500, but you will still need a major phono stage upgrade. If you want smooth you might even consider the Jolida vacuum tube phono stage at about $400.

You are serious about digital, so you will have to get serious about analog if you want to really enjoy it. It just doesn't come cheap.

 

wow, great point Jim. to get the best is needed to use the best!

 

I have some cd box sets, for example Modern jazz quartet 40th anniversary set, or Bird, Complete Charlie Parker on Verve that are lp sized, with big artwork and liner notes just like the lp. Others, like the Dave Brubeck career retrospective, Ray Charles' Birth of Soul, even Coltrane's Fearless leader set are in longboxes with artwork that is as tall as an lp, but half as wide.

 

I suspect ggking's experience with vinyl on the cheap is being played out all across the country.

 

Can you PM me with a link to a $400 Technics SL1200mk2? I looked all over, and the cheapest I found yesterday was $570. And IIRC, the AT cart is up to $125-150.

Thanks.

 

It's a $900 DAC. Besides the computer, that's the entire digital chain.

I'm sure that's true.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I would swear Barry said a properly configured computer playback system beats any CD transport he has heard. Do you mean DAC vs. DAC?

 

Obviously, you perceive the value in relatively expensive digital playback. It shouldn't be such a leap in logic for you to accept that the same holds true in analog.

 

Hooray! I've defeated my vinyl compulsion and music is enjoyable again! Long live Redbook!

 

QFT.

Almost all of my listening and music collection is digital.
I know of the Wavelength DACs, heard one, and yes they are awesome. I don't have that, I use the Squeezebox Transport, which is also a great piece of technology, and yes, my digital music sounds fantastic.

Yet I have a turntable and spin vinyl once in a while. A few posters are asking why you're even trying to get into vinyl and that is the right question. For me, the answer is that I like the diversity of formats, the fact that some pressings and masterings and versions are different across formats, the album art, etc.

So since digital is my main listening, I pretty much all of my thought and and money into that. Vinyl, I consider an "extra."

Yes, you need a good turntable. Get Rega P3 or Pro-ject Debut III or, like I did, a lower end Music Hall. They come full put-together, so all you have to do is take it out of the box and plug it in, basically. Lord knows I don't know jack about fiddling with arms and cartridges and all that crap and I don't really care right now.

Along with a real cheap but solid little phono stage, adding the ability to play back vinyl real well (but not ultra-high level) cost < $500.

I recently picked up the new Mo-Fi 'April In Paris' by Count Basie, originally recorded and, for this release, in mono. My god is it amazing. I don't know if this is available in CD and I don't care, 'cause I have another version digitally, so now I can listen to this classic album either way (though the vinyl blows the other out of the water in this case). This is the kind of thing I got a vinyl rig for.

 

You don't even have to spend that much! 1k-1.5k should get you going.

The problem is that you thought you could go cheap on vinyl, and found out that the turntable and cart do make a difference.

 

I see it happen here. Honestly, if you have religious fervor about a format, time to dial it down a few notches. What works for you isn't necessarily universal.

 

A lot of people here also want to convince you that you aren't really into music unless you are into vinyl.

However, I always recommend vinyl simply for all the music that isn't available in digital. That's the main reason I go into it.

I started out with what was in 1981, a decent DD table. It wasn't the best, but it kept me going. But, it was the reason I got into CD. My second table was an improvement, but it was a budget Music Hall, coupled with a Shure M97-Xe. I thought the sound was good, but quickly realized that it wasn't much better. So, now I have this Music Hall 5, and the sound improved. I slapped an AT10mlx on it and it sounds quite good, but I hear flaws in the cart. I may get a different cart down the line, maybe a MC cart, but I am good where I am. Right now, i'm putting my efforts into a server.

It's all about the goal, and the path you take. None of this audio evolution happens overnight.

 

Tonepub says it would take $3-5K in order to match my digital rig, and I have a feeling he's right. Even half of that is too much.

 

The main problem is that the market is being filled with $150 dollar Sony and Ion USB tables that sound like puppy poo.

 

And, see, you've been turned off by vinyl because you bought crap vinyl playback. If only you had budgeted more money on a turntable and cart, you may have had a better experience with it.

Why did you ever buy the cheap TT anyway? You never said.

 

I know the good folks here advised him to save for something better rather than buy a second cheap table, but there are other forums where vinyl zealots still maintain that even a cheap TT ($200 or less) smokes multithousand dollar digital. Don't know if these folks have actually heard high end digital, but I have seen it posted over at AudioKarma in their turntable forum. I have said for several years now that this sort of thinking will eventually kill of the vinyl revival as the newbies get discouraged and move on to something else. And there is no way even a minority of the vinyl newbies is ever going to spend $1,000 or more for a new turntable.

Even in this thread, there is a huge diversity of opinion as to what the cost of entry into vinyl is, with some saying it is $400 or so for a Technics SL1200 or entry level Music Hall, others saying it is the P3 (about $800 or $900) and others sayint $3k to $5k to equal what GGKing already has with his digital rig.