LOVE "Forever Changes", one of my favorite albums of all time.

Yep that was an expert thread-poop!

Y'know - the differences are so very slight between the vinyl experience and the new CD. I agree that sometimes these things are essential (such as fadeups etc...) but I couldn't tell the difference when I heard it. And it still gets gradually louder - with the natural dynamics of the song, it does this up until the chorus and then dies down again for the acoustic guitar figure for the second time. "A House Is Not A Motel" is STILL the loudest thing on the record so they got something right when they did this. I believe Irwin, but he was cutting an LP right? Different rules had to apply.

 

Steve, a question here: what's that 5k tone you mention and how did it end up on the CD?

 

Re: LOVE "Forever Changes", one of my favorite album of all time. The CD sounds grea

I trust you, Steve, that this is an accurate representation of the material. I have of course not heard the tapes myself. I have heard the Doors first 2 lp's well mastered (you know where) and I have multiple vinyl copies of the first two Love lp's. Further, I have a brother who plays trumpet, a daughter who plays flute, a son who plays sax, I play upright bass (etc) so mine was a guess based on what equipment Botnick/Rothchild were using and what other recordings they did in the same era sounded like (incl. the studios), what real instruments sound like etc. so therein was the source (however erroneous) of my assessment.

ha ha, I got so wordy you all probably think I'm ticked off, but actually I am just curious and verbose.

NOW that I think about it, the "crunchy" ness I'm hearing is likely the solid state desk that Elektra's crew were mixing with. Botnick or Rothchild told Fremer in an interview that The 1st Doors lp was mixed with a solid state desk and that preceded this Love lp, did it not??

 

I'm a little confused. I was under the impression that the "sonic success" of a CD could be determined in how closely it matched the sonics of the original vinyl--that any "improvements" would be rewriting history. Is what you're saying that this CD issue sounds most like the master tapes [before compression, volume reduction, etc., were applied to the production master]?

 

Everyone on this thread, do yourself a favor and buy the new "Forever Changes" Live Concert. If you love the old original LP/CD, your going to love the live set. Great performance by Arthur Lee and his band.

 

Re: Re: LOVE "Forever Changes", one of my favorite album of all time. The CD sounds

2nd album. The first Doors album is all tube.

 

I agree !
I really like this album.If it had been released by a new band or had not followed FC this one would be a lot better regarded.

 

I never knew of this album when it came out, and after hearing a number of recommendations here, I bought the reissue. I don't have a problem with the sound, though it's a little flat and rounded, and not super dynamic - but that's fine.

I am struggling with the music however.

I'm not crapping on your thread - I'm just saying that if you did not get this one first time around, and fall in love with it, it's a little tough to come to 35 years on.

I think it's going to take quite a few more listens till I get on its wavelength.

Regards,
Geoff

 

Give it a few spins - it'll be worth it!!

 

Hang in there. I wasn't born when it first arrived, and I only bought the CD in the last five years or so, but darn it all of it isn't one of my ten favorite albums now. Which, of course, doesn't mean you'll love it, but does mean there's hope for folks arriving 30 years or so late to the game, such as myself.

To these ears, Forever Changes is not as much dated or ahead of its time so much as out of time. I'm not sure music has ever sounded quite like this...

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

 

Re: Re: Re: LOVE "Forever Changes", one of my favorite album of all time. The CD sou

I am DEAD SERIOUS that I am thinking of the 1st lp, it was an interview in Tracking Angle (the OOP print mag) and they were talking about the Self-Titled lp and either Bruce or Paul stated that it was solid state. They also stated that they were the first on the block with this equipment.

 

I have that Tracking Angle issue and IIRC Bruce Botnick states that WFTS for the first solid state Doors LP. Strange had some SS in the chain but still had tube stuff. 1st LP should be all tube. SH would know for sure!

Chris

 

I ordered this CD from CDNow right at the time when they were bought by Amazon. Well, they sent me the Elektra disc instead of the Rhino. I tried to return it without success. So, that means I have an unopened Elektra copy (to go along with my Rhino copy). Is there any need to open it or is the Rhino disc the only one I need?

 

The Rhino CD w/bonus tracks will suit you just fine, and don't forget the first two albums are M/S on the reissues, and both worth having!

I could wax rhapsodic about FC for many pages....IMHO, only The Greatest Album Ever Made By Anybody.....a true masterwork, a fluke of nature, really, since it was recorded under very contentious circumstances. Like ASTRAL WEEKS, SNOWFLAKES ARE DANCING, BITCHES BREW, LIVE AT THE APOLLO, WITH THE BEATLES and a handful of others, so downright different and arresting the sheer audacity alone brings shivers to the spine....the cards are thrown on the proverbial table, no prisoners are taken, take it or leave it, I don't care, the artists seem to be saying....this is us, in all our glory and imperfection, nothing more to say....

As for the mono pressing, I don't doubt it has a few longer fades, but whatever else it may have, no radical remixing going on that I can discern.....recently, I finally bagged a truly decent mono BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD AGAIN after putting up with a noisy slab of crap for too long....now THAT'S a remix! FC is mild by comparison......one of the last handful of Elektra mono's, it's worth hearing in mono, but you're not missing a boatload if you haven't....not true for the first two, you gotta have those in mono for the different mixes alone.


ED

 

Geoff, give it time. The melodies and lyrics will haunt ya.

 

Geoff, just go to "The Good Humor Man." If that doesn't convert you, nothing will....so achingly beautiful and, yes, haunting is the perfect word, for it's a perfect world that doesn't really exist...but for a few minutes, you want to believe it does...you do believe it.


ED

 

Ed I think they are talking about the Four Sail album.

 

So they are...but they'll find nothing anywhere near that quality on FOUR SAIL, though Lee sure tried....problem was, that band he assembled simply lacked the creative chops he had with MacLean, Echols and Forsi....according to all reports, Lee pretty much drove that group away not so much as disbanded it....shame, none of them would ever come anywhere near that quality again, though not sure anyone could have....

FOUR SAIL originally came out on CD through a UK label, Thunderbolt....and, to my surprise, sounded just as grungy and crappy as my clean WLP vinyl....odd amount of distortion....obviously, later, Billy Inglot found a better tape, since LOVE STORY has some of those songs the way they should have been in the first place, which is to say, very clean and natural. A handful of great songs, but without the talent he had with FC, didn't quite pull it off, and some of his later material was just awful, no other word applies....REEL-TO-REAL, from 1974 and RSO, should have stayed in the can, it was that bad and pointless....and instant 99-cent cutout fodder.


ED

 

Not that I have anything against "Stairway to Heaven", but IMO, aside from anything by The Fab Four, in a List of the Greatest Songs Ever Written, my vote would probably go to "You Set The Scene". The way it segues into the 2nd half and builds up to that "time, Time, TIME!........" finale' - man, thats pure genius and it knocks me out every time I hear it.

B/F

 

I passed on this, as I own the 2 Cee Dee set "Love Story"...Oh well, here we go again My favorite "Love" LP also! "Alone Again Or"...is a gift from GOD

 

Gee, I hope not. The sonic success of any remaster should be determined by how closely it resembles the master tape. That is the artist/producer's final statement in the matter. And I doubt the vinyl ever comes close to that.

Thom

 

I first heard this album and anything from this group a few months ago when I picked the Rhino "Forever Changes" CD on a whim.

The tunes are amazing. They don't always hit you right away, but slowly grow on you.