LED ZEPPELIN: Definitive Collection CD Box Set Due In November

I just received mine.

The sticky part of the resealable sleeves is way too sticky. Not really resealable in my book, at least not like the usual standard Japanese sleeves. I think I will get some good replacement resealable sleeves for these.

Also, on two of the sleeves, the plastic flap was folded a little bit, so that these have a crease. I don't think this would occur with a set for the Japanese market. Japanese people are way too picky about things like that.

Haven't done any listening, but the reproduction of the sleeves is really cute and nicely done.

I also have the SHM-CD of Coda, so I can do a direct comparison and see for myself whether this SHM thing is doing anything for me.

 

So this new boxed set is a previous Marino mastering and -not- a new Marino mastering ? ? ? Besides the re-packaging.... are there audio differences in this new Zeppelin boxed set ? ? ?

CNN.com mentioned the Zeppelin remastered boxed sets:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/12/10/holiday.box.sets/

 

There was only one Marino mastering in the early 90's (he actually did have to re-remaster a couple of tracks when the original albums were "re-constituted" as explained by forum member Zal). This new box set contains those same Marino remasters except for The Song Remains The Same, which is the 2007 Kevin Shirley remix mastered by Bob Ludwig.

It'd be interesting to see peak level comparisons between this new boxed set and the 1993 Complete Studio Recordings box. This was done with 2003 European mini-LPs and there were a couple of tracks on Physical Graffiti where the levels were slightly boosted. In the most technical sense of the word, this would be an uncredited "remaster" but it didn't seem to be from the source tapes or even from the flat digital copy of the source tapes (as in the case of Mothership). Instead, it looked like they took the Marino remaster and boosted a couple of tracks they thought were two low (about 2-3dB).

 

The new boxset is a new remaster for some/many tracks.

If you take an existing master (either analog or digital) and apply compression etc., it is a remastering. Just not from the original analog source tapes.

 

Indeed. I compared the first album from the new box set to the original Page/Marino mastering and found no improvement at all on the new box set version.

 

We've had this debate ongoing in other threads. Yes, any time someone prepares digital data for a release it is technically a "remaster" in the narrowest sense of the word. However, in the modern "digitally remastered" sense of going back to the original analog source tapes, digitizing them and then making decisions about EQ, noise reduction, compression, level, etc., there's no evidence that this was done. One Japanese web site I saw stated that these were taken from the 1994 remasters. Compare this to Mothership where John Davis actually used the same digitized source as George Marino used but made his own decisions about EQ, noise reduction, compression, level, etc. In the case of this new box, it looks like they just took Marino's work on the studio albums, boosted some levels, threw in the Ludwig 2007 master for TSRTS and called it a 40th anniversary edition. No one went back to the original 2-track master tapes and digitally remastered them again, the way for example, Steve has been doing recently with the Cars` Heartbeat City for example.

 

Does this mean that the level change for the new LZ boxset was made in the digital domain?

 

That has to be the case, since the new remasters all sync digitally with the previous Marino remasters, whether there's a level change or not.

 

A level change in the digital domain is not good from an audiophile perspective, right?

 

Not good if it's done at 16 bits word length, which I certainly hope wouldn't be the case in a professional environment in 2008. It's not too bad if they convert the file to 32 bits, raise the level then dither back to 16-bits using high quality dither. However, the Marino masters already showed signs of transient peaks being squashed in places, so any further boosting simply removed more transients.

Plus, we learned from John Davis' brief appearance on the forum here a year ago that the digital transfers of the Zeppelin master tapes were done on a Sony 1610 (he said in 1992 but it would have had to have been in 1989-1990 because they are definitely the same source used for tracks on the first 4-disc "crop circle" box set released in 1990). IIRC, the 1610 is only 16-bit 44.1 or 48kHz, so by today's standards, that's quite obsolete.

I kind of have this sinking feeling that the Zeppelin camp believe that digital is digital and therefore, that 1610 copy of the master tapes is good enough to use indefinitely.

 

Thanks for the info, Stefan.

 

I don't really get it.

John Davis goes back to the digital files created in the early 90's, makes some mastering decisions (compression, EQ, level change, etc.), and it is considered a new remastering.

Someone (unknown) goes back to the same files, applies some mastering decisions (level change, maybe EQ, I don't know), and it is considered the same mastering and not a remastering.

All these releases are "in synch".

 

I know it's confusing, but it's also about credits. Mothership was credited to John Davis for remastering. The new box set has no credit anyone else. I haven't seen it so I don't know if it still says "remastered by Jimmy Page" as the old ones often did (which was more of a marketing tagline. Page sat in on some sessions while George Marino did the actual work). To my knowledge no EQ was done on the tracks that were boosted for the 2003 mini-LPs We still have no confirmation whether the new box set has these boosted ones or the 1994 levels. In another thread on here, someone compared Hey, Hey What Can I do from the CSR with the SHM version and the digital data was identical indicating that for that track, there was no level change at all.

I do know that John Davis told me in a private message that he achieved the better bass definition on some Mothership tracks through using 3-band EQ. In my view, the only difference between what John Davis did for Mothership and what Steve or others do for a full "remastering" is the source he used. If some unnamed record company dude decided Custard Pie was 2db lower than it should be and subsequently ran it through a limiter with a 2dB boost on the input, then again in the most technical sense of the word, that's a remaster of that track, but it's not the same as Davis taking a flat master and EQing/compressing it to achieve a different sound and then running it through a limiter with whatever boost he used.

 

I don't think we should base our definition of remastering on credits printed on the artwork. For example, Barry Diament silently remastered a couple of Phil Collins CDs, and there's no credit for that anywhere, but we still consider it a remastering.

The new mini-LP's only replicate the original artwork, no "new" credits which weren't on the vinyl edition anywhere. The packaging doesn't even list the bonus tracks on "Coda" and "TSRTS".

You could very well be right there, I haven't done any detailed comparison.

That was an error on the original poster's behalf. He actually compared the tracks to "The Complete Studio Recordings", and not to the 4-CD "crop-circle" box. There was/is already a mastering change on some tracks between these two editions.



But I get your point, the new (boosted) Zeppelin remasters aren't a full-scale remastering like other remasterings. Still, I think there is certainly a difference in sound quality between the early 90's remasters and these new ones.

 

Yeah.... I'd like to get me some that High Quality dither . . .

 

Wouldn't we all.... ;-)

 

I just picked this today and haven't had time to listen to the CDs yet, but I'm pleased with the packaging except for one thing... what the hell is up with the cheap quality of the plastic sleeves?

The only other Japanese mini-LP box I own is the DEVO box from earlier this year, which came with high quality thick sleeves, whereas these are so thin that I've already ripped two of them!

Lame.

 

Yup, those are not very good. I ordered some replacement resealable mini-LP sleeves from www.SoundSourceCDs.com, and those are much better.

These fit everything but the somewhat larger "In Through The Out Door" and "Physical Graffiti". The plastic sleeve of PG was fine in my set, and for ITTOD, I was able to use a slightly larger plastic sleeve from another mini-LP and use one of the ones from SoundSourceCDs.com for that one.

 

I compared the SHM-CD of "Coda" with the one from the Rhino Box. There is definitely a difference in sound quality in my opinion. The SHM-CD seems to have slightly deeper bass and sounds a little less "stressed", less "coarse". Not sure how to describe it, but there is a difference in my opinion. It's not a huge difference to me, but there is one.

So, if they release decent masterings on SHM-CD, I would personally go for the SHM-CD where possible. Of course, the SHM technology does not really help if the mastering is not so good. For most releases, I prefer some earlier CD masterings anyhow.

 

I own it. Does anybody here have any other opinions about it.

 

Why would anyone want to save the plastic sleeves, I have always thrown those into the trash.

 

Yeah, they're not all that necessary when you buy a box of mini-LPs... singe ones are different though, because those will actually be on the shelf.

I'm glad that the packaging on this set is better than the Complete Studio Recordings one (I sold mine, and got 40% at Borders, so I got the new set for about 60.00)... the packaging on that sucked!

 

Because the "good" ones are easy to open an close and protect the artwork really well. I think 99% of Mini-LP collectors keep the plastic sleeves.

I guess it's a collector's thing.

 

A/B'd the SHM-CD of Led Zep I and the Rhino box version and the SHM has a tiny bit more punch and clarity - now to compare the SHM to the original 2003 Japan mini-sleeve version.

 

By the way, I now also have the 1997 1st Japanese Mini-LP versions. These have the original George Marino mastering without the changed levels.

I prefer the 1997 Mini-LP's sound-wise over the newer set (either SHM-CD or Rhino).

The 2003 Mini-LP's also already have the raised levels (added compression).