LED ZEPPELIN: Definitive Collection CD Box Set Due In November

OK, after first listening to these samples the other day, knowing which was which, I thought that #2 sounded better. Today I listened to them without knowing which was which and I still was able to easily pick #2 as sounding better.

While I certainly will agree that they are close, to me #2 sounds less hot in the vocal, more natural overall and has less tape hiss than #1.

#1 was taken from the 1990 Crop Circle Box Set

#2 was taken from the 2008 Japan SHM Box - WPCR - 13141

For simplicity's sake, all future comments on the samples should be posted here in this thread, as the Gorts have decided not to merge the two LZ threads.

 

This is impossible. If there were differences in tape hiss or anything else to do with the sound then that would show up as a data difference, and the files are digitally identical.

 

I won't even begin to explain the technology behind these things, for I only know a small bit about it. I'll leave that up to the experts. OTOH, I have been listening to music for over 35 years. I know when something sounds different and I heard a difference in the samples. I wasn't the only one who heard a difference either. I know that Jeff Carney had a very similar experience when he listened to these samples as well:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3923015&postcount=124

 

George, I'm sure you heard a difference. I've heard differences between identical sound files too, and even between repetitions of the same sound file, and the psychological effect is very real. But barring computer failure of some sort, there won't be any physical difference in the output sound.

There's not all that much to understand about the technology. The .wav file gives a digital representation of a wave form. The computer looks at that digital representation and translates it into sound, and that's the only thing it looks at. And sample for sample, these two wave forms are exactly the same.

Tape hiss, vocal EQ, and so forth make a difference in the wave form. Same wave form, same sound.

 

George, since you have the original CD's, I wouldn't be surprised if you hear a difference when listening to the actual CD's. After all, I don't think SHM could be as popular as it appears to be (in Japan) without any noticeable effect. You can't go market a new technology like they do with SHM and have no effect at all.

"You can fool some people for some time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

 

Actually, I don't have the originals. They were borrowed to do this comparison.

I just compared the original remastered CODA CD to a CD-R of the SHM CODA and had very similar results. The CD-R of the SHM beat out the store bought, domestic remastered CODA too. Barry said earlier, perhaps in the other thread, that a CD-R of a store bought CD sounds closer to the master than the store bought CD.

 

I lined these up down the sample in an audio editing program (Logic Pro)...inverted the phase on one and they completely cancelled each other out. There was dead silence. Even with all faders and monitor levels all the way up. Not a blip. That tells me these 2 files are exactly the same. And yes...they sound the same to me. If there were any difference whatsoever...that would have been the only thing you would have heard in a cancellation test (the remaining highs, the remaining lows, etc.) There was nothing.

 

If true, then the argument ends there, kats and kittens.

 

Anyone actually buy the new Rhino box? Reviews?

 

This is a very good point. When I read this kind of discussion here, I often think that psychology is the elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring. Fair dues to Matthew B for admitting he has made mistakes too.

 

Did anybody buy this box set (the Rhino version). If so, I would be interested to see some pictures or have some questions answered, like:

Do the CD's have the OBI's?
What are the catalog numbers for the individual CD's (different from the Japanese SHM CD's)?
Do the CD's and the individual cardboard sleeves come in resealable plastic sleeves?
Do the CD's themselves state anywhere "Made in Japan"?

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Yes, I have this set (Rhino R2-513820).

Obi's on evey album - easily removable, but be gentle.

Yes for resealable plastic sleeves, but I notice the 'sticky' part is a bit too sticky. Sorry for the lame explanation, but be careful.

'The Songs Remains The Same' has fifteen (15) tracks.
No 'Made in Japan' printed on CD label
PSCE-10055 1 (inner ring on non-label side)
PSCE-10056 1
Copyright 2007

'Coda' has twelve (12) tracks.
Made in Japan
PSCE-10058 1

That's all for now - gotta run

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

Just read about this Led Zeppelin box set in the newspaper and found this thread. I don't have any Led Zeppelin CDs but I've always loved their music and I need to get them all. Is there a box set with good mastering or do I need to hunt down each album individually?

 

The original masterings by Barry Diament were never released as a box, but are easy and cheap to obtain at used CDs stores and amazon.com. The only other mastering of the albums was done by George Marino and Jimmy Page. This mastering was released in box set form twice.

Have you heard any of the Led Zeppelin releases? Did you like the sound?

 

Barry Diament masterings must be excellent. Yes? Any tips to be sure I'm buying the right ones online?

I've always loved the music, but I haven't heard any of the CDs since I started paying attention to sound quality. Does it go: Barry=round, George=compressed?

 

BD mastered them all except for IV (and TSRTS??), (that said the old IV sounds great too). They are identifiable by having plain spines, text with shiny silver backgrounds on the disc itself (no red and green label on the disc), disclaimer about the "compact disc reveals limitations of the source..blah blah" .. Im sure there are other ways to tell too.

Also, you wont find them NEW online, only on the used sites like ebay and amazon marketplace

 

Also the newer readily availible ones don't sound THAT bad, IMO not as bad as their rep on this site would indicate!

 

IMO, the Diament masterings are excellent! But your taste might be different. As I said, have you heard a Zeppelin CD by either mastering engineer?

George is compressed, but not ridiculously so. Barry's have a warmer, more analog sound to them.

 

There is no box set with the excellent Barry Diament mastering. You need to find the CD's individually.

By the way, I have a complete set (extra set) of BD mastered Led Zeppelin CD's, all German pressings with early SRC codes. I will be offering this set soon in the Classifieds section.

 

I owned and heard plenty of Zeppelin CDs in my younger days when I wasn't concerned with sound quality. Since I started paying attention to it (and after I sold my CD collection), I don't recall hearing one. I know I like a warm analog-like sound as opposed to a loud compressed sound though. I have Barry's Bob Marleys and love them.

How much might those go for?

Is there a good way to hunt for the Barry Zeppelins on eBay or would I need to investigate each listing I'm interested in based on blind_melon1's clues?

 

I'd definitely go for Barry's mastering then.

I'd try amazon first. All LZ listings for Barry's mastering are 1990 for some reason. I bought a ton of them on there for under $10. You'll find the catalog numbers here (along with a ton of other info), if you want to email the seller to make sure that you have right one:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=88238

 

You can find the original Led Zeppelin CD's on the used market. Some are more common and easier to find than others.

The ones which don't show up that often seem to be Coda, Presence, In Through the Out Door and III (based on my experience).

I listed my complete set today in the classifieds section.

 

I read some of this thread "Who else thinks the original Led Zeppelin CD's are over-rated?":

http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=140170

and it sounds like the difference between the Diament masterings and Marino masterings isn't so huge. I'm trying to get my mind around my choices here. I believe there are 4 main mastering categories: Diament, Marino, brickwall, and SHM. Is that right?

Does the "Complete Studio Recordings" box set have the Marino mastering? What about the "Definitive Collection" box set?

 

Both are the Marino mastering.