KISS - (Music From) The Elder... thoughts?

I probably posted this before, but there was an Elder tour in the early planning stages. Once the album tanked, so did the tour plans. It would have been more like theater from what I read.

 

Very true and very well stated.

I've loved KISS since I was a kid.

 

Are you sure that was me and not you? I remember that's where we first heard this alternate version, but I thought I was just the guy with the turntable and you were the one who made the purchase. I'd feel stupid if I owned it and sold it later, because I sure don't have it now.

I now recall that this was the first CD I ever bought. When all the other KISS albums were available on both cassette and CD, it drove me crazy that it was out of print. My old vinyl copy was destroyed by me in my youth, making a lot of it unplayable, so it was one I wanted more than anything to upgrade. It just was never to be found.

There was some point in the late '80s where I saw this one pop up out of nowhere on cassette, which totally blew my mind. Not long after I found it on CD while visiting a friend in Maryland and bought it regardless of the fact that I didn't have my own CD player at the time. It was quite an experience to finally hear the album without the skips and other surface noise I was familiar with.

 

For some reason I remember that it was you and I want to say that it was around $50. I don't remember where you got it (eBay?), but I do remember reading that it was a different mix and then you were hellbent to get it. We listened in your mom's room, if I recall correctly.

It was definitely never in my hands. You must have gotten rid of it during some purge or other.

I do remember you telling me that it was your first CD purchase. Wise choice, that.

 

If not for the fact that it wouldn't sell, they could do a deluxe edition with the us version on disc one, the international version on disc two. The rest of the CDs could be filled out with new songs recorded for KISS Killers and demos and outtakes from The Elder.

BTW, I love the DCC gold Elder avatar...if only!

 

The song "I" always cracked me up. The time changes, the sorta swing thing that goes on in the middle. Kind of rockabilly in a way with good riffs. Weird song, but great album nonetheless.

Anthony

 

That would be a lovely concept because the "Kiss Catalog" re-masters missed of Killers and most of us are suckers for previously unreleased material.

 

Would love to see it done one day!

 

I love "The Elder". The only Kiss albums I listen to are that classic run from 74-77 plus this one. There's some great songs on it; it's such a shame the band have disowned it as "The Oath" is one of their best songs. I probably listen to this album more than any of the others these days, I just find myself going back to it all the time.

Highlights -

The Oath - crushing guitar work, a call to arms. just brilliant.
World Without Heroes - worth the price of admission for the guitar solo alone. that's some of the finest, tasteful playing you'll ever hear.
Only You - I love this song, it's so well written and sung. the backwards vocal echo is tops.
Under The Rose - genius. and what a riff! this song is 100 times better than anything on Dynasty or Unmasked. if only they'd done more stuff like this.

 

The Elder is among my fave KISS releases. I joined the Kiss Army in 1978!

A few things I'd like to add to the conversation:

Like someone else pointed out about the band not liking Elder, this is very true. A friend confirmed this, when standing in line to meet Gene at a Konvention in '95. The fellow in front of my friend had a vinyl copy of Elder in his hands that he presented to Gene to sign, to which Gene replied "People still listen to this ****?". True story!

I had heard rumors for years that the original plans for Elder included a narration between tracks, sort of like what is heard at the end of "I". Anyone else heard that?

The book "Kiss Alive Forever-The Complete Touring History" (GREAT book, by the way!!) by Gooch and Suhs mentions that Kiss had planned on an elaborate tour to support Elder. These plans included a simulated swarm of bees, a Kiss temple, a "well of the unknown", a stage designed to look like a spaceship. Also, the drum riser that resembled a tank turret that was used on later tours was originally planned for this one.

 

First heard the US LP back in the summer of '90, and that's what I'm used to. The remaster can be re-programmed, thankfully; but not being able to hear the smooth segueways is a little off-putting.

"A World Without Heroes" is one of KISS' finest songs, period, and like someone said earlier worth the price of admission alone. No other KISS song moves me like this one, especially the line "A world without heroes/is like a bird without wings/or a bell that never rings/just a sad and useless thing." When the strings come in behind that line, it gets me every time.

A lot of these songs are fun to play if you play the bass!

 

A few 7"es from my collection. A black vinyl in pic sleeve with I b/w The Oath, and a pic disc with A World Without Heroes b/w Mr Blackwell. Thought some of you might like to check these out.

 

Other than track listing difference what's the consensus on remaster vs original of The Elder?

 

For me the only good things about the Elder are Ace's last performances with Kiss and that because of it we got Creatures of the Night, a far better product.

 

The remaster makes more sense. More musical interludes. Better flow. Sounds great.

 

This is a great album. If Kiss had stood by it instead of disowning it right away as soon as it flopped, it would have been revaluated sooner. Kiss' argument against the band's detractors had always been "you may not like us, but our fans love us, our fans this, our fans that..." When the fans did not like the album (perhaps because it was the first one not to feature the faces in make-up in any configuration - Kiss probably did it to avoid the mixed reactions to Eric Carr replacing Peter Criss and got unanimous rejection instead), there was nothing the band could do but apologize for it.

If "Destroyer" had also flopped, they would have certainly disowned it as well, criticizing all the chances Bob Ezrin took by using a choir in "Great Expectation" and an orchestra in "Beth". Since it became a classic, they gladly accepted the credit.

By the way, if you think the cover is not a good enough reason for the fans not to like the album, I refer you to an annotated discography by one Mary Toledo, published in a special magazine titled "Kiss Kollection" or something. She admits to not having even listened to the album, but dismisses it as a mistake just the same. How's that for a review?

 

Creatures of the Night a far better product??? The dumb cliched calculated attempt to jump on the heavy metal bandwagon? For me the only good thing about Creatures is the impressive drum sound.

 

Destroyer almost was a flop in the US. The first couple of singles flopped and the consensus among fans and critics was that KISS had gone over the top with Bob Ezrin's production. Had American DJs not played the B-side of "Detroit Rock City" - a ballad named "Beth" - things might have played out very differently for KISS in the seventies.

 

Kiss got dumb later in the 80's. I think most of Creatures is a pretty mature effort (well for Kiss anyways). No cheese like Crazy Night and Asylum.

 

Creatures was the last great album of the 80's.

 

always loved this lp.......

 

Many thanks for that!

 

The worst of it was Hot In The Shade.

 

It gets no worse.

 

Animalize, Asylum and Hot In The Shade could have an elimination and there'd still be no winners