KISS - (Music From) The Elder... thoughts?

Well here we have some common ground. The Elder, while interesting is not my favorite KISS record. My favorite KISS album is actually Hotter Than Hell with Rock and Roll Over a close second.

KISS went down hill in '78 with the solo albums IMO.

 

Honestly saying it's better than any albums they made from 1974-77 is odd to me.

 

I personally agree, but to each his own. Now back to the main topic...

 

Well, I reach for it more than I do those - so to me, yes. I would like to say that I liked the idea of Kiss stepping it up, but I wouldn't have really thought that when I was that age.

All I know is that I thought I was alone in this after hearing them disown it, I thought *I* must be crazy. But I've found quite a few people that feel the same way about it. To me it's their most special album, and the one that holds the most significance to me. But those are my own personal reasons really. Just wanted to see why other people may dig it too.

If I didn't like what Kiss was about, I wouldn't have given them so much money over the last thirty years.

 

Sorry if you thought I was trashing this album and Kiss fans. I love their weird period- 1978-1982. They produced their most interesting music at that time.

 

Not at all. That's just the period that I tend to love most... for whatever reason.

 

to quote someone i know

"F@%k Kiss for Hijacking my childhood"


lol, that line makes me laugh everytime i think of it.

 

I love the album! What more can I say? I'm surprised I've held off on buying the remaster this long. I have the original CD release. I'll have to keep my eye out for it.

Anthony

 

When I first heard it, I had a tape copy that someone had made for me and looking at the US version it was that tracklisting starting off with The Oath, I got used to the album in this version and was a bit peturbed when I bought the remastered CD as I didn't like the sequence. 'Odyssey' definitely belongs at the end of the album, its too epic to be at the start!

 

Call me crazy, but I really think The Elder is one of Kiss' better efforts. Having said that, I'm just not much of a Kiss fan. They were never that big in the EU to begin with, and over here they had their commercial breakthrough with Dynasty (go figure!), which was the first Kiss album I ever bought. That might be one reason why I rather like this album. Another one was that, at the time, I was really into conceptual albums like those early Rush records, APP's Tales of mystery and imagination and certainly The Wall.

So you might understand where I'm coming from - and I liked The Elder immediately upon hearing, although there were some long-time Kiss fans in my class that hated the album, just as they hated Dynasty and Unmasked.
Now Unmasked is a really bad album IMO, the songwriting's just plain bad during the whole record. And though The Elder is not without flaws, it sure has its shining moments. Ace's guitar playing is blistering in places (Dark light!) and A world without heroes is just a great song, although not very Kiss-like.

But bartels76 is right - Kiss is no Pink Floyd and The Elder certainly is no The Wall. And in hindsight I understand why Kiss fans rejected it (wasn't this the only Kiss album that failed to go even gold?). But for me it's a nice change of pace. They showed courage in doing so, but it probably was a wise move to return to the harder rocking stuff after this commercial failure.

 

Gene said in a Kerrang interview that he gives The Elder 5 stars for sheer balls to make it. I agree. It was a bold effort but it failed badly.
For regular studio albums, The Elder was the only Kiss album that failed to go gold for many years. And then Carnival of Souls was released in 1997 and that one had the distinction as well. COS was an experiment too which I actually like. The sound was grungy but underneath the grunge it was still Kiss.

Another random note, Unmasked has that so bad it’s good vibe. I can make it all the way through Unmasked because the songs are non-abrasive and generic. It’s like supermarket or doctor’s office music!

 

Just because:

 

I want that box!

 

I knew you would dig that.

Also (from the very cool kissfaq.com), an oddity from the Mexican pressing of Kiss Killers:

 

Shandi would have been perfect had they released in on Dynasty rather than Unmasked IMO. It has that laid-back / semi-disco feel that could have easily received play on FM AOR stations in 1979.

 

The thing with me was The Wall sounded like Floyd going downhill and The Elder sounded like Kiss was going (back) uphill. It blew Unmasked out of the water IMO. But I didn't see it as a big departure from their popular style. There's still a lot of rock and roll on The Elder. Mr. Blackwell is heavy in a classic Kiss way and it's kinda panned here. Listen to the riffing on The Oath- it fits right along with old staples like Parasite, C'mon and Love Me and Got to Choose. Same with the chorus of Under the Rose- very heavy. Comparing it to Destroyer it falls short somewhat but I think A World Without Heroes smokes Beth. I don't see the style of The Elder and their other albums exclusive of one another. I can't imagine a real Kiss fan not loving this album.
Now Lick it Up (and other KISS as Def Leppard albums) are another story.

 

Because it didn't sell. If it sold, Gene would have bragged about how they made the right decision under difficult circumstances and came out on top.

 

I am one but I don't love it. It's not fun, it's not catchy, not melodic. There's a few catchy things here and there but it just sounds like them trying really hard to be something that they can't be (progressive rock).
It had every right to bomb.

All my opinion of course.

 

Oh yeah there would've been an Elder movie. A huge tour. There was all these grand plans that never came to be.

An Elder tour sure would've been interesting.

 

I remember in high school drafting a dream setlist for that tour...

 

Imagine the album went to # 1 and sold millions and Kiss performing the whole album in its entireity on tour? That would be a site!

 

Especially in those costumes - and likely with the set from the abandoned video for "I".

 

Of course, my friend.

It's odd that even Kiss fans can see things so differently. The Elder to me is lots of fun, very melodic and catchy. I don't see anything in the songwriting that resembles progressive rock but there are a lot of strings if that's what constitutes it for you. If it was supposed to be prog, then yes it was a major misfire. I could probably learn to play the whole Elder album in 1/10 the time it would take me to learn a small section of Karn Evil 9 (any movement).

Kiss was stretching a bit but I don't think it went that far from home. They were living in the past, I suppose, thinking it's okay to be non-commercial...but in 1981 that was just a big no-no.

 

That’s what makes being a Kiss fan so fun. There is so many lineups, great albums, bad albums, brilliant moves, missteps, unbelievable concerts, and Gene and Paul (somewhat) talking out of their a**.
Despite all this they made some great memories for a lot of people. Also, whether you want to believe it or not, they were a huge influence on a lot of artists.