Kinks Deluxe editions available for pre-order (part 2)

It's not one of the new DE releases, but it's a good one to get. There's a full album's worth of non-LP tracks and the QC is very, very high. It's a 3-disc set, but isn't that expensive anymore.

 

Ah, yes, where have I been!

With help from everybody here, I'm leaning towards getting that one and either Kinks Kontroversy or Face to Face, to start. Also, Muswell on SACD, probably.

Any thoughts on KK vs F to F?

I've been listening to samples of everything at Amazon all day. I take it a big part of the Kinks is their cynicism? Strange I seem to already know all the songs on Village Green.

 

KK vs F to F is no comparison. It HAS to be Face to Face. Kontroversy, despite some stand outs is still juvenilia compared to the leap in sonics and content displayed on Face to Face. The biggest and most significant quantum leap/gamechanger the Kinks ever made.
Face to Face, I've always thought, was the one album where the Kinks were truly ahead of the British Invasion "innovations" curve. It makes the contemporary efforts by the Stones and the Who seem childish in comparson, and makes a strong challenge to Revolver both content-wise and in terms of sonic innovation. I've often wondered if the Beatles heard Face to Face at the time and what they made of it. By late 1967 The Kinks had fallen by the wayside as serious contenders in the hip UK pop scene, but in 1966 they briefly led the game.

 

Which versions. Just based on the albums proper? The new deluxe KK vs. the '98 remaster (w/bonus tracks) of FTF? The new deluxe KK vs the still unreleased deluxe for FTF?

With regard to albums proper, I'd go with FTF. That is, unless you don't own a best of/singles/greatest hits Kinks compilation. Then the decision becomes much more difficult. KK contains two of the Kinks' greatest/most famous tracks ('Till The End Of The Day'/'Where Have All The Good Times Gone/), while FTF possesses only "Sunny Afternoon" in that category.

There are more high-quality, but low profile, tracks on FTF ("Too Much On My Mind"/"Dandy"/"Rosy Won't You Please Come Home"/etc), then there are on KK ("I'm On An Island"/etc)...

 

The next batch is all good. You'll have to get them all. Seriously. Start with Face to Face and work your way up. Then go back down again after that. If you already have VGPS deluxe and want more, then I think you will like any of these from the get-go.

 

I'd probably give that distinction to 'Something Else...'.

The comparison to The Who is a little unfair IMO. The Who were younger/part of the second wave of the British "invasion", still very much a "singles" band, and wouldn't release their first genuine effort at an LP until the following year.

I completely disagree about FTF making the Stones' 'Aftermath' seem childish in comparison. In fact, I'd say the two are quite similar. Each were the first efforts by their respective groups, to use all original material. Each had very experimental/exotic sounds, in comparison to previous work. Each was made up of about 1/2 brilliance, and 1/2 mediocrity. And neither had yet reached the new level of quality The Beatles had established, the previous year, with 'Rubber Soul'.

FTF is good, but (IMO) patently inferior to 'Revolver' in both categories.

One of the songs on FTF, "I'll Remember", is (IMO) nothing but a poor rewrite of the 'Rubber Soul' song "If I Needed Someone'.

I would think it highly likely they listened to it and concluded that The Kinks had made significant progress, similar to that of the Rolling Stones.

If were talking strictly in terms of singles/45's, I would agree that they were briefly (during the summer of '66) at the top, along with the Beatles and Stones. "Sunny Afternoon", "Paint It Black", and "Paperback Writer"/"Rain" were all both big hits and big advances in cutting-edge composition/recording, among the British pop music elite...

 

I don't hear Ray as cynical very often... more the wry observer or self-deprecating participant. There's a great deal of tenderness in his writing as well as heartfelt sentimentality.

 

Of course he has multiple aspects, as he would not have been a genius otherwise.

But in proportion to his fellow 60's British pop/rock songwriters, Ray's work is incredibly cynical (and possibly one of/the source of people's innability to connect with his work). It's something that made him/the group stick out from the rest of the cowd (for better and worse).

Ray/The Kinks weren't, and had little/no desire to be, "normal"/"standard"/"conventional"/"mainstream" in the 60's UK pop/rock group scene. There are countless examples, both musically and personally, that verify this...

 

I'm just going by short samples at Amazon. There's obviously more to the Kinks than what I perceived as cynicism. Wry and critical observation might also be a way to describe it.

 

The Beatles for example were extroverts. Ray it has always seemed to me, from his songs, even in the early days, is very much the introvert. In his songs he tends to look at the world and observe ("everyday I look at the world from my window"). So not really cynical, more detached.

You also have to remember the ban they had on going to the US. While their contemporaries were off touring the US and becoming less 'english' Ray was stuck at home and became more 'english' as a result. You can't imagine them making VGPS if they were touring the US and having big hits over there.

For me obviously I love it when British bands are actually British, sing without an amercian accent and about British things, and you can trace Ray's influence there to the punk and new wave bands and writers like Paul Weller, The Specials, then up to the Brit pop bands like Blur and Pulp.

 

>>>>>>I'd probably give that distinction to 'Something Else...'.


I disagree agree: Something could never be a gamechanger because it's clear it wasn't widely heard/taken seriously in the UK at the time (chart position #35 compared to FtF's #12): by the time of it's release, the Kinks had already fallen by the wayside as serious contenders to the crown of the big hitters like the Stones/ Beatles, and the LP wasn't received as an essential artefact in it's time. Plus really Something Else is more a refinement of the innovations made by Face to Face than anything new.


>>>>The comparison to The Who is a little unfair IMO. The Who were younger/part of the second wave of the British "invasion", still very much a "singles" band, and wouldn't release their first genuine effort at an LP until the following year.


You could've said the same about the Kinks pre-FtF, and Pete Townshend was regarded with the same level of respect as Ray Davies as a songwriter/auteur in 1966. I'd actually say A Quick One holds its own to FtF in terms of experimentation with what an album could be at the time, however it's more in terms of content I find The 1966 Who lacking: lyrically, they still hadn't fully transcended the mod tough guy persona of the first album and some of their attempts at doing so were clumsy.

>>>I completely disagree about FTF making the Stones' 'Aftermath' seem childish in comparison. In fact, I'd say the two are quite similar. Each were the first efforts by their respective groups, to use all original material. Each had very experimental/exotic sounds, in comparison to previous work. Each was made up of about 1/2 brilliance, and 1/2 mediocrity. And neither had yet reached the new level of quality The Beatles had established, the previous year, with 'Rubber Soul'.

I guess we just disagree on the worth of Face to Face: I'd say it's 80-90 per cent brilliance. let down by a few bluesy/generic pop/1965 outtakes tacked on at the end. Whereas I would say that Aftermath (I'm talking the UK edition) is frontloaded with all it's goodies and then has a LOT more generic blues/pop taking up more than half the rest of the album. And again, lyrically, FacetFace is overall just much more grown up than Aftermath imo.

As for Face to Face vs Rubber Soul, there really is no comparison. Lyrically, Rubber Soul only has a few tracks that shape up to the average track on Face to Face in terms of ambition and breaking new ground, and those tracks like "Norwegian Wood" or "In My Life" are more allusive and pared than the way The Kinks would more explicitly write about these more adult subjects. And you may prefer The Beatles approach, but that doesn't mean Ray Davies style isn't of comparable worth.

>>>>FTF is good, but (IMO) patently inferior to 'Revolver' in both categories.

Content wise, FtF I maintain at least holds its own against Revolver. Apart from the 2 1965 tracks, every song on FtF has real content and a point: I find more of the songs on Revolver lacking in this respect, setting aside the undeniable triumphs lke Eleanor Rigby, songs such as I Want to Tell You, She She Said, Got to Get You into my Life are lyrically fuzzy and unfocussed in comparson to the KInks work, more slogans with a few extra lines attached than something that directly communicates. Which perhaps is the point for material that deals with drug experiences/criseses of consciousness etc, but could also be used to excuse unfocussed lyrical content.
More to the point, Goodday Sunshine, which superficially resembles the Kinks contemporary work, measures up poorly in terms of content: it's a fun throwaway with no depth, the kind of music hall vamp loads of bands at the time would go on to do. Starting with Face to Face, the Kinks were able to use the same form time and time again to produce something of greater substance.
Sonically and conceptually the Kinks have less of an obvious edge, but I'd say there's still a case to be made: the awkward attempt at sound painting on "Rainy Day in June" is comparable in ambition if not execution to Tomorrow Never Knows, plus the original use of sound effects to link the album and lend it some conceptual cohesiveness was pretty unprescendted in a rock LP context, even if it didn't fully materialise.


>>>One of the songs on FTF, "I'll Remember", is (IMO) nothing but a poor rewrite of the 'Rubber Soul' song "If I Needed Someone'. he

On this, I agree. One of two weakest tracks imo(though I still like it) along with You're Looking Fine: both not uncoinicidentally leftovers from late 1965 sessions. It's a shame some of the other songs recorded from the Face to Face sessions weren't included instead of these two.

 

I'm not trying to pitch an argument here, but I thought I'd revisit this objectivelly. From Dictionary.com:

cyn·i·cal /ˈsɪnɪkəl/
[sin-i-kuhl]

–adjective

1. Distrusting or disparaging the motives of others.

2. showing contempt for accepted standards of honesty or morality by one's actions, especially by actions that exploit the scruples of others.

3. bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic.

I guess what I find endearing about Davies is his embrace of traditions and traditional morality. He was cynical about Sixties Culture, but not so much about the values of his parents generation. He had real love and empathy for the characters he conjured, a depth I didn't get from Paul McCartney in songs such as Eleanor Rigby or She's Leaving Home (good as those songs may be).

All of which may explain why I like The Kinks more than ever as I watch the world around me changing in ways I don't understand or like... and I don't think of myself as a cynic.

 

Further thoughts on cynicism...

Something Else by The Kinks is probably my favorite album by the group. At a glance, a few songs strike me as having a cynical perspective, but on second thought...

There’s a judgmental undercurrent about the women’s life choices in Two Sisters, but it’s a rich character study in miniature; like an outline scenario for a film script or novel.

Situation Vacant is a bit more lighthearted in its portrait of an unemployed sad sack with a hectoring mother in-law.

Harry Rag is interesting. I always understood that the title was slang for "cigarette," but looking on the Internet it’s apparently a term coined by Davies’ father. So the song is a tip of the hat to his dad's facility with language (which I’m sure tickled him pink) and it’s a terrific exploration of the dark love affair people have with tobacco; the way it becomes an inseparable and cherished part of their personalities and identities.

People Take Pictures Of Each Other from Village Green also came to mind. If it’s cynical it’s affectionately so… an inventory of people’s desperate efforts to document their existence on film, all set to a Keystone Cops musical runaround.

Perusing the titles of The Kinks albums I love, I see an abundance of insight, warmth and humanity.

 

As to Face to Face, A.J. nails it. And let's not forget the ground-breaking experimentation with rock-song narrative. There'd been concept albums previously, themed around girls or cars or holidays, but the continuous story told over "House in the Country," "Most Exclusive Residence for Sale," and "Sunny Afternoon" — from three different viewpoints! — was unprecedented. Or look at "Dandy," where the jolly sing-along music and even the narrator's own choruses of "You're all right" are undercut by his snarling malice.

There's no doubt Ray can be cynical. Look at "Mister Pleasant." "A Well Respected Man" is absolutely vicious. But it's more typical for him to worry at an idea from opposing angles, with empathy for each side. Thus "House in the Country" is balanced by "Sunny Afternoon," and "Picture Book" by "People Take Pictures of Each Other."

 

I just pre-ordered the Face to Face and Something Else Deluxe Editions on amazon.co.uk. $39.59 instead of $62.99.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004XGA3I6/ref=oss_product

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Something-Else-Kinks/dp/B004WDPX9Y/ref=pd_bxgy_m_h__img_b

 

I think it is fairer to say that the bulk of his work is satirical in nature. Cynicism can be an element, but it's not always the main element.

 

Speaking of malice and the influence of The Kinks on The Jam: Malice in Wonderland.

BTW, I just ordered all or 'em from Kontroversy on from Amazon.uk. I gave up trying to pick and choose while keeping up with the interesting discussion here.

 

Amazon.com is now showing the release date as June 28, for the next 3 sets.

 

Yes that's true, Plastic Man is another. He had quite a few songs like that. I tend to think of those more as youthful "us against them" diatribes, but they were certainly cynical.

 

"I'll Remember" recorded between 23-30 Oct 1965.
Rubber Soul released Dec 3, 1965.
Now "If I Needed Someone" was recorded Oct 18 so maybe Ray heard it before being released, but I doubt it.

 

I think it's pretty well accepted that "Harry Rag" was common Cockney rhyming slang for "fag"--a cigarette. Ray's background was Cockney, so his father probably used the term, but I doubt he coined it.