Just finished mastering Miles/Cannonball SOMETHIN' ELSE, Coltrane BLUE TRAIN 45 RPMs

Well most of the popular titles have been selling out so I would say that they're doing fairly well. Also it's a limited edition set. It's not like they can do a 33, a 45, a 78, a CD and an 8-track version!

With regard to comparing a 33 version to a 45 version...I'll trust Steve. He seems like he kows what he's doing.

This reminds me of the people who complained when Steve annouced he was doing LPs for Warners...people cried "What about CDs! Why can't you do CDs!?" Well, it's a business. And business is business. You can't just do whatever you want.

 

Limit?

Steve was asked by Analogue Productions to remaster these titles for 45RPM release.

They didn't say do any format you like.

 

Correct. Let's also keep in mind that Steve is a mastering engineer, not a record label executive or producer.

 

You really need to hear some of these to know that this is absolutely the right format. Having to flip sides every couple of songs or so is a small price to pay (if you really see it as that big of a deal) for the incredible sound.
The best explanation comes from the horses' mouths at the Music Matters website: http://www.musicmattersjazz.com/sound.html#article2

 

That's what 24/96 needledrops are for my friend. I always record every side of every LP at least the first time I play it. Then when I'm tired and lazy, I can just click and play to my hearts desire. Someday when I'm in the mood, I'll clean more and rip em in Or even just play one of my favs for fun over a beer. I didn't think I'd like the needledropping, but it's not bad, and it does give you a lot of solid feedback on how your TT is sounding.

Soon I'll have a Squeezebox Duet and I'll be inserting album art into a computer along with my needledrops all viewable by remote control played over network to a device on my stereo for easy browsing of my combined digital/ripped analog collection.

 

I am more than than happy to be getting my butt out of the chair for a quicker spin at 45rpm. The improvements are that great over 33 1/3rpm vinyl.

 

I'm actually going the other way myself. I've been doing needle drops of rare Jazz vinyl since I bought my first CD burner (a 2X SCSI drive) back in 1995. Now, I'm buying vinyl to play it!

I just set up a nice little system upstairs for a work space, with a brand new Denon DP-500M TT with a Denon DL-160 cart. The 'M' in that model number stands for "Manual". I have to stop work, get up, cue up the arm, flip the disc and re-start. Clearly I am in a "33 rpm" world.

Really, I'd be all over these at 33 rpm, maybe even at $50 for 1 LP. But I just can't convince myself to go 45 rpm at this point in my life. Heck, I'm just getting back to having to get up every 20 minutes for my 33's. CDs were as high as 80 minutes and a 10 GB iPod is "never".

Kevin

 

Wasn't the cover of "Soul Station" your avatar for years! You're going to have to at least treat yourself to the 45 of that record!

 

I predict Kevin takes the plunge in his next 4 posts

Come on Kev ... come over to the music.. you know you want to

 

45 rpm records are healthier for you. Just think of the extra calories you'll burn getting off the couch more often.

 

Steve wasn't "limited" for sure. That I know for a fact. They pulled out all the stops and thankfully asked both he and Kev what the "ultimate" would be, even knowing the Fantasy series sold VERY well. The answer was simple. "It works, why change it?"

There's 33 RPM reissues out there for many titles in the list. If you're passing on them for just the speed/time spent per side issue, you'll just have to excuse the next guy who'll snap up the remaining copies. You'll be doing a real fan a favor that way.

 

If you win one of those nasty 45rpm Blue Notes send it my way

 

I thought they only sold 1,000 copies of each of those Fantasy titles? That might sound like a lot, but that's not really a lot when you consider how many were bought just by people from this forum. You have to wonder how many more would have sold if they pressed them at 33 rpm and sold them for $25. I know that I would have bought at least 10 or more titles if they had come out like that.

Oh really? There are 33 rpm versions out there that Steve mastered? That's right, there aren't. Sure, I could buy some of those Classics records but I am very happy with my CDs. However, I would love to hear Steve's take on some of them, hence my interest in these discs. My interest isn't at the $50 per title level just yet.

Kevin

 

One thing I admire about Kevin is he rarely falls into the collector's mentality that so many of us suffer from (albeit gladly and willingly).

 

But then Analogue Productions might not have issued 100 plus titles as only 20-30 popular titles would have sold in the amount necessary to justify the investment. The LE aspect of the series alone must have sold several of the fringe titles, I think.

 

But that's the thing too. There are some of these titles still available and the limit is only 1K units. Are these still around purely because they're not the most popular or is it a combination of that PLUS the $50 price and 45 rpm? Myself, I think it's the price tag. I KNOW I'd own several of these titles if they were cheaper and 33 rpm. And I know several others who are in the same boat. I think it's lousy that the market has to be so limited for this great music. I'd love for everyone to buy them. The more Jazz fans, the better in my book.

BTW, I don't claim to have a crystal ball here. I'm not willing to put my finances on the table for a vinyl-only issue. But I do know that I picked up Steve's WB 33 rpm LPs from my local Bull Moose Music shop for $22 each and I like what I hear. If something similar was coming out with Blue Note titles, I'd be all over them. My discretionary income is not unlimited.

 

I've bought many 45rpm sets from the OJC series and I like them, but I also think this is quite a surreal situation, that we buy $50 vinyl discs that need to be flipped every 10 minutes, when there are hi-rez digital formats which also sound almost perfect but are much more convenient, durable, allow for bonus tracks and are less expensive to make.

 

In the end, these are for high-end systems that can truly reveal the subtle advantages of 45-rpm pressings. Although I am a subscriber for both Blue Note series, I am buying these records mostly for the future and not for the present. I do have several lower-fi options that are very satisfying and should have been enough if not for my collector-ly instinct.

 

Can't say I agree. The differences between these pressings and other pressings of these titles (vinyl or CD) are absolutely HUGE. Beyond tonality, it is the DYNAMIC RANGE that is really just remarkably better, no contest. That is what consistently amazes me about these 45 rpm pressings.

This is not something you should have to strain to hear. You do not need a mega-expensive system to reveal those differences, just a decent, reasonably transparent one. The only thing I'd say is, you do have to have a good-tracking cart/tonearm combo - they are SO dynamic that if you don't, it'll be mistracking city. But again this doesn't take mega-bucks.

 

I dont buy these for collecting. I buy them to listen to . One thing we have to remember is that Steve and Kevin themselves have said that this type of music in particuliar benefits in sound quality from the 45 format.That is the reason they do it on 45 and that is the reason I like them also.It's about the sound brother.

 

Then you are missing out waiting to play them on some future system imo.Its all relative.These sound amazing to my ears on my relatively meager system.In comparison to the same titles on other pressings? No contest. They are at another level.

 

dang straight

 

I think the sad fact is that Jazz just doesn't sell that well -- especially jazz beyond about ten albums that are more mainstream classics.

Of course if they were cheaper, they would sell more. On the other hand, if they were 33 RPM some people might not pick it up because they already have (what they think of) as a nice pressing at 33 RPM. It is all quite complex. I think what is important is that it seems to have worked out for them financially so they could release the Blue Note series (and inspired Music Matters). Accoustic Sounds bills it as one of the most successful audiophile reissues in history and I suspect they are right.

By the way, I don't see anything on the Accoustic Sounds site about their Blue Note being a limited run. I wonder if they are going to press different quantities for different titles. That would make a lot of sense. No reason to have a repeat of Waltz for Debby, Sunday at the Village Vanguard, Relaxin'...

 

Also, another thing to consider is the stereo vs the mono fold down issue.Since many were simply folded down into mono I am happy we are getting to hear them in there proper mix.If I understand correctly this hasnt been done on 33 or any other format.

The best sound, properly mixed and awesome mastering quality. Cant go wrong imo.

 

A few points:
a) the Warners titles are cheaper because they don't have to pay themselves a licensing fee, and they have much wider distribution. The marginal cost of doing 2x45 vs 1x33 is probably only the difference between $40 and $50 retail price.
b) Many of the Blue Note titles have been reissued 3 times at 33 on 180 gram vinyl in the LAST TEN YEARS. Capitol did some McMasters (and Wallys in the Connoisseur series), then Classic, and in some cases Classic monos. Not only would it be insane to try to get people to buy them again in the same format, but Classic may still hold the license in that format for some titles.
c) Several of the Fantasy titles were cut on 180 gm 33 rpm vinyl BY STEVE HOFFMAN for DCC, and they didn't sell that well. Nor are they that expensive on the secondary market. Quite a few others were mastered by him for cd. We are not lacking for Hoffman mastered jazz.
d) Not a few other Fantasy-owned titles were cut by Doug Sax or Stan Ricker BY ANALOGUE PRODUCTIONS. How many more times would we have the same records cut in the same format by the same company?
e) As far as the "success" of the Fantasy series, they pressed up $5 million worth of records (at retail, $50x1000 copiesx100 titles). At this point they've moved what, 2/3 to 3/4 of them, in five years? That's not bad, particularly given how oversaturated the reissues of these titles has been. For some of them you have had OJC, AP or DCC, XRCD, K2, RVG/Keepnews, box set, and hi-rez versions. Frankly, to move any of these titles after that market saturation is either a miracle or a testament to the obsessiveness of audiophiles.
f) yes, 45 rpm is a major PITA! So you pays your money and you takes your choice.