Jimi Hendrix on cd...questions...best version?

C'mon, Midnight Lightning is one of the worst posthumous releases EVER. In case you don't know Midnight Lightning and Crash Landing were produced by Alan Douglas who in his infinite wisdom mixed out and/or erased the original bass and drum parts performed by Mitch, Noel, Billy and Buddy and replaced them with STUDIO MUSICIANS in the mid 70's. Douglas even mixed out some of Jimi's guitar parts and replaced them with studio musicians. I'll say that again...Alan Douglas mixed out HENDRIX guitar parts with those of studio musicians. You paid $100 for Midnight Lightning? Why? All of the Crash Landing and Midnight Lightning tracks circulate in their original versions and in every case they completely slay their overdubbed counterparts. One of the tracks from Midnight Lightning is a composite of guitar parts taken from 3 completely unrelated Hendrix studio jams stitched together with some session guys adding rhythm guitar bass and drums. How unholy is that? Nearly all of Alan Douglas' posthumous releases are deeply flawed.

FWIW, Loose Ends, Nine to the Universe and the Jimi Hendrix Concerts are utterly craptastic. There was much, MUCH better stuff in the vault's than what was put on Loose Ends. In the 70's a large % of Jimi's unreleased recordings were uncatalogued and scattered in studios and tape vaults all over the US and the UK. Not knowing just what exists and not having access to many sessions Alan Douglas just seemed to pull tapes at random out of the vault and release them. This is what happened with Loose Ends. Some good stuff but just not at all representative of the quality of Jimi's unreleased material. Ditto with Nine to the Universe, there are MUCH, MUCH better studio jams in the vault that this stuff. The Jimi Hendrix Concerts has some killer live stuff but most of the tracks have Grande Canyon type echo added to them giving the allusion that they all come from the same concert.

I wish Hendrix's catalog could get the same treatment as Miles or Coltrane. EH should do something like a 4-6 CD box set of the 10/68 Winterland shows. Low gen copies of the SB's of all 6 Winterland shows circulate and they are really great. Ryko really didn't choose the best performances when they did the Live at Winterland disc in '87. I'd love to see a 4CD Pet Sounds Sessions type box for the Electric Ladyland sessions. Some of the alternate mixes and unreleased tracks from the EL sessions are mind blowing (the '68 version of Cherokee Mist, VC(SR) alternate takes, South Saturn Delta, alt mixes of Have You Ever Been... and Midnight Lamp, etc)

 

I stand corrected EH claimes that they purchased the AYE master from a "private collector in Texas". What does everyone think of this claim?

 

JIMI HENDRIX
THE CRY OF LOVE, West German Polydor, catalog 829 926-2

1. FREEDOM
2. DRIFTING
3. EZY RIDER
4. NIGHT BIRD FLYING
5. MY FRIEND
6. STRAIGHT AHEAD
7. ASTRO MAN
8. ANGEL
9. IN FROM THE STORM
10. BELLY BUTTON WINDOW

 

I think that claim is rediculous. It was stated in Guitar World Magazine that the original master tape for AYE was held in a vault by Polydor in England untill Les Kahn gained controll of the tape in 1987. At that point Les Kahn held the original master tape of AYE untill he turned it over to Experience Hendrix in 1997. The very early digital versions of AYE are taken directly from the original master tapes. There are different takes of the various songs on the different early CDs of AYE. The West German Polydor has a take of RED HOUSE that has never been anywhere else, and the vocals of I DON'T LIVE TODAY are also unique to the 1984 West German Polydor CD. The Japanese Polydor P20P has different versions of RED HOUSE, 3RD STONE FROM THE SUN and MAY THIS BE LOVE than does the P33P Japanese Polydor. The early Warner Brothers used the original master tapes that corresponded to the American vinyl. AYE on CD has so many different versions, that a collector might want to collect them all just to obtain all of the various takes and versions of different songs. For a real nice clean AYE, buy the Canadian Warner Brothers from 1986, it is outstanding. The Austrailian Polydor AYE from 1985 has a beautiful picture disc.

 

Steve, of course you are probably right, but I do own all of these versions of AYE, and the differences are obvious. Also, it has been well documented that these differences do exist, but that has nothing to do with the original takes used for the US Warner Brothers AYE. Remember that RED HOUSE was not even on the original US AYE, and the other differences are unique to certain Polydor albums and CDs because of the Track vinyl version, and the Barclay vinyl version tapes being shipped to different Polydor mastering houses.

 

I think your mistaken about "different takes of various songs" being used. Sure, the Smash Hits Red House is a completely performance than the one that was on the original British AYE LP but everything else on AYE is same. IIRC there was an alternate mix of May This Be Love labeled "Waterfall" released as a Barclay 45 in 1972 b/w 51st Anniversary. Perhaps this alternate mix (if it even is an alt mix) made it to some of the early AYE CD's but the "takes" or performances of all the AYE songs are the same everywhere..

 

Well documented? I've never heard anything about alternate takes for AYE showing up anywhere outside of bootlegs save for the 2 versions of Red House (the take on the British LP and the Smash Hits take)...

 

As far as Stone Free goes...from what I have read on other threads doing a search...the multitapes and mono mix is missing, this according to Eddie Kramer. Didn't the Singles box also use the fake stereo version? I mean why not use the vinyl 45 as a source since the purpose of that collection is to present the vinyl 45's on CD?

I agree with what's been posted before...the duophonic version of Stone Free is bad!

Brian

 

I totally agree Brian. Eddie Kramer said in an interview around the time EH got the catalog that "15% of the masters were missing" in reference to the early 45's. Obviously Stone Free is one of the missing tapes. Surely and engineer with Kramer's credintials would realize that an authentic mono mix dubbed from a mint 45 is better than fake stereo from a tape source. I've never even HEARD the mono Stone Free mix. AFAIK it's never been on CD and I've ever come across a needle drop...

 

Douglas, in his own misguided way, thought he was improving the recordings, by overdubbing missed/bobbled notes or correcting sections where the rhythm was a bit off. I guess some people hate that stuff as much as others hate tape hiss. When I first heard the untampered versions, I was expecting to hear sloppy, error filled takes...but they sounded fine to me.

During the legal skirmish over the rights to the catalog, the record label's position was that if it wasn't for their (i.e., Douglas') masterful handling of the catalog, Hendrix wouldn't be a household word today.

 

Hold on...Rockman was referring to sound quality only. When you say "quality" are you referring to performance? If so, that has nothing to do with which CD version sounds best.

 

That may be true, but I do like the echo on some of the tracks, particularly "Red House".

 

It does sound kinda cool but I think they over did it. BTW, do you know if the live Red House on the 2CD Voodoo Child Collection is the same echo drenched version as the one on the JHE Concerts or is it a completely different mix?

 

Chris, Doesn't the duophonic version also have a bad drop-out in the intro...maybe from a damaged tape? All the more reason to do a needle drop!

Brian

 

I was referring to performance and I did get a little carried away in my rant but the Rockman praised Midnight Lightning which kind of set me off...

 

Not sure as I don't have the stomach to play it anymore. I'll check and see...

 

The only version of "Electric Ladyland" I got is the 1991-Polydor-single-disc (847 233-2) which has the same front-cover as the '97-remaster. I couldn't find anything about it in this thread or the other one (maybe I missed it...), so I'm curious how this compares to the others (or is it the same as the Polydor with the nudes-cover just re-released on one disc?).

 

I haven't heard it, but if it's the same version I don't know how they could make the claim that it is "previously unreleased".

 

What bothers me about the way the hendrix catalog is being handled is the Elvis Presley approach: save a couple of rarities tack them on already recompiled stuff..then release a few more then recompile it yet again. It took four releases to get four sides to the first two Elvis acetates out on CD....

The single versions of Steepin' Stone and Izabella from the 2-CD Voodoo Child Collection could have been put on Experience Hendrix or the box set.

Brian

 

Well, the reason that I hang out here at the Steve Hoffman forum is to learn stuff and to share opinions about music and stuff. I really don't know that much about Hendrix and his body of work other than what I hear on my CDs and read in magazines and hear at Hendrix conventions and read here. I respect everyone's opinions, but I don't even have a copy of CONCERTS, so I can not make a judgement call on that. Dob is correct in saying that I was speaking about sound quality only, I do not know that much about performance quality. I do own a real nice copy of STAGES on Japanese Polydor P33P, but I recently got rid of my STAGES on Japanese Polydor P20P, (sold it for $250). That is some good stuff, I really like some of Jimi's performances. I own THE LA FORUM CONCERT on Reprise CD, catalog 9 26435-2. This is a very nice sounding CD that was done by Sir Alan Douglas. Of course there are many concerts that i do not own, and many CDs that I do not own, but with 85 legitimate CDs of Hendrix, I am off to a good start of collecting his digital material. I will keep reading this thread to learn more, and I will look for my notes regarding the different versions of AYE.

 

It's easy to hate the album because of what has been done to it, but if you put that aside it has many enjoyable moments. There's still a lot of Hendrix left on it!

 

Chris,

Just played it. It isn't a bad drop-out really...but I do hear it. It is about 19 to 20 seconds in...in the left channel.

Brian

 

Ever compare either of those to the US version? I love Stages...San Diego and Atlanta are probably my two favorite Hendrix concerts (not that I've heard them all - not even close!)

 

Oh man!!

Imagine - you would have done it right and this collecting nonsense about the different versions to get the best one would have ended!!

So what is with the Axis remix anyway I brought up a few months before that resulted in many pages of threadic?