Japan Single layer SACD : "Who's Next" "Aja" "The Velvet Underground & Nico" 6/23

Because if it's a title that gets released as an SHM-SACD and I've already purchased it as an SHM-CD(which isn't exactly cheap either) I'll have to sell the SHM-CD (no sense having two versions of the same title) and knowing how many (if not most on this forum) don't care for SHM-CDs that might not be easy.

 

Halfway kidding when I say this: That would make a great sticker to put on the shrink wrap! Better still, a great tagline for the SHM SACD Website...

misterbozz, what about any "warm fuzzies" from Aja?

 

Neither of these selers are offering Aja - Is this already hard to get?

 

That sounds promising, thanks!

 

huh?

 

yup.

 

Ha! Perfect. Although he may be just a *tad* biased towards his mastering.

 

Neco did offer it, but it's been sold.

 

Probably. The only Aja I saw was from an Australian seller and he's charging a ripoff price.

 

So I ordered Aja, Velvet, and Who's Next through CDJapan...obviously the Who disc is delayed, so I'm guessing the other two will ship at the same time. Question is though, are my first two discs safe? By which I mean, what are the chances of them selling them to someone else who just wants these discs? (I've had this happen before, with Amazon, as it happens).

 

40 pages, 785 posts, a single review of some of these SACDs. Wow, just wow...

 

My copies of Aja and Velvet Underground showed up today from HMV.co.jp!

Nice packaging.. the pictures don't do it justice. The outer "sleeve" is fairly thick plastic and has the SACD logo and SHM logo silkscreened on the sleeve. Unfortunately I can't read Japanese, so I can't read the liner notes (there are no English liner notes). But I can read...the following (since it is in English):

DSD Transferred from analogue master tapes by Hitoshi Takiguchi (UNIVERSAL MASTERING STUDIOS).

This is on both the Aja and Velvet Underground packages. I can't comment on what that REALLY means, because we don't know which analogue master tapes were used.

The only thing that is a disconcerting is that the pocket that houses the cardboard sleeve/plastic inner sleeve/actual SACD is a tight fit. I can see this (the jacket pocket) wearing or possibly ripping in the future. The white inner sleeve also has the SACD and SHM logos embossed on the sleeve.

Both discs have the green label.. so if you don't look carefully at them you could mix these discs up pretty easily (as they look very similar). As mentioned in this thread, it is curious as to why they decided to use a green label with such small print for all discs?

Going to eat dinner and then start spinning these discs. Will report back later.

 

Uh oh. Hope this guy was told to change his ways for these. You can search him here. He's a true king of 'brickwall limiting' most of the time.

 

Never heard of him, but I found a list of albums he's mastered:

http://albumcredits.com/Profile/651068

 

He's covered here. Just do a search.

I've probably heard about 40-50 of his remasters. With one single exception (Stomu Yamashta's Floating Music), they have all been treated with hard limiting.

Tbh, he's a guy whose name I might use if this were a thread about the world's "worst mastering engineers."

Hope he was told to treat these for the "audiophile market."

Can we get some samples of these up?

This list is far from complete. He does most of Universal Japan's rock stuff.

 

No fear, he didn't brickwall the Aja SACD. Sounds quite nice actually.

If there was any compression added to the mastering chain it is not the "in your face type".

 

Well,he did the SHM remasters for Rod Stewart's Every Picture Tells A Story and Never A Dull Moment and many on this board who've heard them think they sound fantastic! (including me)

 

Universal Japan had been using the Suha Gur remasters for the Rod Stewart catalog. Those aren't just tweaked versions of those?

 

I didn't do a full out comparison... but I did pull out the Kevin Gray mastered Cisco LP and listened to Black Cow and Aja, before I put on the new SHM-SACD version.

It is extremely evident that the Cisco LP is far better than the SACD - more open, more alive, more openness and depth to the soundstage both front and sides. To my ears, in my limited test, there is no comparison the Cisco LP beats the new SACD (at least on the two cuts I listened to).

The SACD in comparison, while having a nice smooth response, was a bit more "congested" in its presentation. The highs didn't shimmer like they did on the LP. The bass response on the SACD was a tad "bloated" in comparison to the vinyl version (which was tight and well defined).

So there you have it, the Cisco LPs is better in my estimation.

That said, the SACD sounds good, the cymbals sound nice, the drums have a nice punch to them, and the music sounds pretty darn good... but after hearing the superior Cisco LP, I can't but hear the "closed in" feeling to the sonic presentation that the SACD has in comparison. The presentation sounds a bit "muted" and doesn't shimmer like the LP. (Made me wonder if maybe some type of "noise reduction" was used in mastering this to DSD?? - not that I say it was - I don't know.)

I do have the original MCA CD (not sure if it is Steve master or not) as well as the Steely Dan Citizen box set.. but I really don't have the energy to compare this SACD right now to either CD version.

A few things:

1) Is this SACD worth $50.00 - after listening once I have to reserve judgment at the present time. My initial feeling is if not for the elaborate package, probably not.

2) Is this the best I have heard this album sound - well no..as you can see from above the Cisco LP is better (at least on the two songs I compared). Is it the best digital version - I don't know, but I am not really doing jumping jacks over the overall sound quality. Maybe this weekend I will do some comparison between the SACD and other digital versions.

3) The mastering was done very judiciously... it isn't overly loud, doesn't sound compressed, and has an overall nice sound - better than most other digital re-masters we get in this day and age.

4) Am I glad I bought this - well yes. It doesn't sound bad, even if I am not blown over by the sound quality. It is a limited edition, and it is quite possible that once they sell out of whatever quantity they "limited" this to, we may never see this actual issue again.

Ok... there you have it. Aja is not a SACD sonic revelation in my eyes, or is it ears? It sounds pretty good, but a bit "restrained"/"boxed in".... I know it can sound more alive and open than it does (witnessed by the Cisco LP). I wonder how I would have felt about the sound if I hadn't listened to the Cisco LP first?

I know others have this disc on the way and hopefully more people will join in the sound quality discussion.

So my personal opinion is if you are really on the fence about spending upwards of $50.00 (when you figure in shipping) on this disc, maybe you should hold off until others give their opinion.

 

^^^

Wow! I almost pulled the trigger last night on the Aja SACD. Already have and love the Cisco LP. Thanks for the review, you saved me $50

 

What if I am wrong??

No really, if you have the Cisco LP, and don't want another version, save your money... (the Cisco LP does sound lovely) but I trust your ears (from what I read of your posts), so I would have loved to know what you would think of the SACD in comparison to the Kevin Gray mastered version.

The one thing I noticed that where the LP had nice tight "punch" when the bass and drums hit, the SACD never "popped".

 

Not sure who Suha Gur is but I can tell you HT is credited for mastering on both Japanese SHM Rod Stewart tiles I mentioned as I own them both.

 

Ok - I caved a bit. I pulled out the Citizen box set and chose the song Josie.

I was actually quite surprised how "open" the sound was on the Citizen box CD version of Josie. Sounded more open than the SACD version, yet the SACD had more 'meat' and 'weight' to the music. The Citizen box set version was a bit anemic sounding (like there was a hole in the midrange). But the high end sparkled when the SACD sounded a bit muted. On the other hand the SACD had a more natural analog sound vs. the somewhat digital sound of the Citizen box set version of the song. The cymbals on the SACD sounded like cymbals, while the CD version had a bit of "splash" in the high-end cymbal sound. The Citizen box set version was mastered at a lower volume, as I had to turn the volume up a few clicks to match the volume of the SACD.

Just for laughs I put the Cisco LP on last (again just the song Josie).... no contest... CISCO LP wins. This is how the music should sound and Kevin Gray nailed it. The LP makes you sit up, perk up your ears and LISTEN.

Back to the SACD for the final listen to Josie - and my initial findings are confirmed. The Cisco LP is better, but after listening to the Citizen box version, it is clear that the SACD trumps that digital version. It has more weight, slam and top to bottom smoothness, that tries to get close to what the Cisco LP gives you, yet it just can't reach. It may get somewhat close... but again is it $50.00 worth?? You have to make that judgment for yourself. (I guess I am having a hard time telling somebody to spend $50.00 on this SACD, because it is a lot of money... but don't get me wrong... even though I know the LP is the "winner", the SACD could be a close second comparatively speaking.)

 

I'll PM you my address

 

Suha Gur was one of Universal's top in-house mastering engineers for years. In 1998, Universal issued the Rod Stewart catalog and he did the remastering. Universal Japan had been using these remasters over there (unfutzed with) since then. My guess is that the latest 'SHM' versions were simply tweaked from these.

Recently, it seems Takiguchi has sometimes been assigned to do tweaking on existing digital remasters for SHM releases. The sources on these certainly don't appear to have changed.

Do you buy any CDs pressed outside Japan?