is there a good current CD of miles davis "kind of blue"?

Thanks for posting this. I was unaware of its impending release. I wonder if Mark Wilder will be handling the mastering chores again?

 

Should be the same 2 CD's from the 50th Anniversary box currently on sale...

 

Do you know who was responsible for mastering the CDs in the box set? Since you're rolling your eyes I take it you're quite the expert.

 

Just trying to help...

If you follow the links from my post above you'll find that information, and more.

As for your question...

Current box:

Mark Wilder / Maria Triana

Japan DSD 2006:

Mark Wilder / Maria Triana / Woody Pornpakoski

 

Thanks.

 

Just to echo Matt's comments these are both the definitive editions on CD that I've heard. No tape speed issues as well.

 

Well, according to Mark Wilder himself, on these very boards, no EQ or compression at ALL was added to the '97 Legacy CD. Either in the analogue re-mix from the back-up (correct speed) three-track, or the A/D conversion for the CD. None.
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2402235&postcount=166
Later, in the same thread, we learn from Mark that a tiny bit of EQ was added to the SACD, down a 1/2 dB @ 20k.

Now, that's not to say that makes the CD better, or that you need to like it that way. (Maybe those tapes need some EQ?) But, it is well known here that the '97 CD is from the best possible tape source, and is entirely "un-futzed" with.

 

So the others, by Wilder again, are futzed with?

 

Well.. regarding different Wilder work on the same album... this is quite interesting:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3526175&postcount=126

Which one is futzed with?

 

So did every single issue of KoB, on any format, up until 1992. Didn't stop it from being the most popular jazz album of all time. Hell, no one even noticed until the 90's.

Another thing to note is that any speed correct re-issue, on any format, is from the '97 re-mixed two-track analogue tape made from the back-up three-tracks. (With the sole exception of the '92 Mastersound, which was direct to digital from the three-track.) It's an open question whether to call a re-mix a "re-mix" when it's only from three- to two-track. Still, I don't know what else to call it, so I use the term re-mix.

Now, none of the pre-'92 CDs use the first generation two-track tapes, as apparently they couldn't be found in the '80's. The very common "Columbia Jazz Masterpieces" are dreadfully no-nosed to compensate. The earlier, and vary rare, Japan CDs (and the Euro CD discovered by Peter in the thread linked above) seem more like honest transfers. Although to be fair, not much is known about who really did what to them. They do suffer somewhat from increased hiss, and a narrowed stereo spread, as one would expect from second generation tapes.

The fact remains tho, that if you want the sound of the original mix (done by Irving Townsend in 1959) in digital format you need to seek out one of the early (preferably NON-no-noised) CDs.

Again tho, whether that sound is preferable or not is up to the individual listener. . . .

 

He does say he EQed the KoB tracks on the Miles/Trane boxset. (Some folks say they liked them better.) I don't have any info on the EQ settings for the 2006/2008 masterings.

Maybe those tapes need EQ? Flat isn't always the best way. Find that long thread where Steve revealed what his settings were for a bunch of his older masterings. More often then not he's added EQ. No offense meant to Steve, but I'm sure he's not the only one who knows how to use an EQ?

Mark does explicitly state the '97 CD is a flat as a pancake. I highly doubt someone as respected as he is would take the trouble to come on here, and then tell a blatant lie.

 

I don't know for sure, just speculation. But, the "Wilder" credit on those Japan mini-LPs might be for doing the analogue re-mix and/or the original DSD A/D transfer. Then someone at Sony Japan did the final CD mastering?

 

The problem is that I keep finding different masterings by Mark Wilder all the time... I mean... for KOB we have 2 different ones (2006 and 2008) at least, and the Mastersound (the Gold and the Japan Mini LP), and the 2000/2001 DSD CD's... and the 1997 Legacy... maybe others...

They are all different. If only the 97 is "flat", maybe that's precisely how it is not supposed to be done...

If you compare the Legacy to the 2006 DSD or the current 2008 from the big box 50th Ann. KOB, you'll clearly notice how much more balanced and smoother they are. If these are EQ'd then maybe that's how they should be mastered. I suspect these latest versions use "the" master tapes...

Anyway, I think it's a little strange that the same person remasters the same album so many times... why is that???

 

Actually I'm not sure he is credited on the "2000/2001 DSD CD's"... sorry about that

 

I have the 2007 Japanese hybrid SACD of Kind of Blue, which has the same mastering as the 2006 CD Sergio mentioned. To my ears it sounds better than the 1997 remaster and so, to a lesser extent, does the Miles/Trane boxed set, so I guess I like Wilder's EQ settings better than the sound of the master tape as reproduced on the 1997 CD, which - again to my ears - emphasizes the sharp edge of Miles' muted trumpet to a degree that I can't stand.

 

Again, not sure, but you could be seeing a credit for the '97 analogue re-mix, which all post-97 CDs share.

 

Actually, let me amend that.

We do know about the new 2008 LP mastering:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3834161&postcount=86
This is straight from Greg Calibi, who mastered the new vinyl. It definitely does have some EQ added in the low end. Half-smiley faced, if you will. Interesting comments there about the '97 re-mix too!

And, again, whether one likes, or dislikes this, is down to the individual listener.

 

The U.S. SACD is great in my opinion. The '97 Legacy remaster is not my favorite version on CD, but it is no slouch. For $10, it will probably suffice for many folks. That said, I prefer the original 35DP mastering (i.e., Japanese issue with catalog number 35DP 62 or original U.S. issue with catalog number CK 08163). The Columbia Jazz Masterpieces disc is horrible in my opinion.

I have the Japanese hybrid SACD but have only listened to snippets of it. Based on all the comments I've been reading here, I need to give it a good listen (both layers).

It's good to know that the CD from the 50th anniversary box set is well regarded. I've held off buying the box due to people finding the record to be warped. I need to get it eventually.

 

How is the DualDisc version from 2004?

Pat

 

Redbook CD side is bit-for-bit identical to the '97 Legacy CD.

 

In the digital versions I have heard I would list them in preferential order as follows (EQ comments are total guesses):

SACD CS 64935 (engineered by Mark Wilder for SACD) 1997- quiet background, min EQ
CD from the Miles and Trane boxset (Mark Wilder mastered) 2000- min EQ-
CD CK 64935 1997 (re-mix from orig. 3 track- Mark Wilder ) - sounds bold but loud, with the usual 'non- quiet' CD backdrop

The vinyl:
US 1959 mono six -eye CL 1355 (music has best cohesion and immediacy and flows well but vinyl had surface noise)
Canadian CBS stereo WPC-8163 re-issue (very quiet vinyl - but sounds distant and overly polite)

My ideal KOB would be the CL 1355 re-issued on super quiet vinyl, wrong speed or not l -

 

Again, according to Wilder, you've got that backwards. The '97 CD has no EQ. The SACD and the Miles/Trane box have some subtractive EQ added. The SACD has a tiny bit of the top rolled off, the Miles/Trane has both top and bottom rolled off even more. Which you prefer is entirely up to you.

Now, the mono tapes never had the speed issue. So your CL 1355 is correct speed.

They had four tape machines running that day. (Usual for Columbia.) Mono primary, mono backup, three-track primary, and three-track backup. Meaning four first-generation original session tapes existed at one point!

Only the primary three track was miss-adjusted, and only for the first session on side 1. Irving Townsend used the primary three tracks to do the original mix-down to a stereo tape. That mix was used for the stereo LPs. In the 80's when it came time do the CDs the first generation of this mix couldn't be found. Early CDs use second (or higher) generation copies.

In '97 Wilder did the new re-mix from the backup (correct speed, still first generation) three-tracks. Every CD and LP (including the Classics) since '97 has used this re-mix.

For the original mono LPs the first generation primary mono session tapes were spliced into album order. Fades were done live while the LPs were cut. That means that mono LPs are actually a tape-generation closer, the "mix" was done live during the session. Also, that means these never suffered from the speed issue on the three-track machine.

Apparently the mono session tapes are long-lost as well. Now, a CD of THAT would have made a great addition to the 50th anniversary box set! Only way to hear those tapes is on an original six- or two-eye LP.

 

Thanks for the analysis and history-
I do not see the EQ contradiction - I thought the SACD & Miles/Trane box had minimal EQ - the 97 CD sounds loud relative to the SACD, pointing to a volume or compression difference from the SACD,

Too bad the mono tapes are gone. I do cherish the 1355.

 

OK, fair enough.

I read the "bold" comment to mean you though it was EQed, and the others weren't. The opposite is true, but a listener would have no way to know that. . . .