Is SONY pulling the Plug on SACD??

What would a Sony official say, "yeah he's right"? This is more pr.

 

This is indeed true. I mean there are people here who prefer non-hybrid sacds. There are people who are stereo only. There are people who only want multichannel, colorized, x-rated and 3-d music. And they all think what they prefer is what the general population also prefers.

Any executive worth his/her salt (and I mean this seriously and in the best sense of the word) has to look at the whole and decide whether sacd/dvd-a/whatever is worth it. The truth is that no one is buying any hi-res format for hi-res. Maybe they are buying for the cd layer (stones/dylan, etc) or maybe for the video and extras (pet sounds), but hi end aint driving anything and that's the bottom line. Is sacd with worth sony's effort for little or no profit? Is dvd-a? I think most of us know the answer and so do the majors. Too bad.

So if you want to bash sacd (and the title of this thread certainly was inflammatory) or dvd-a and you are a fan of the other format, go ahead. But you are shooting at yourself in the long run.

 

Don't forget that there is a royalty involved with putting the HDCD logo on a disc and its artwork. I don't know if it is substantial, but I can only guess that the roryalty increased since Microsoft purchased Pacific Microsonics.

 

But not nearly in the same numbers as SACD...as a result it is a bigger gamble for labels to issue DVDA rather than SACD.

I completely disagree as SACD constitutes a major revenue item for many a high end retailer (some online) and many a record label. It pales in comparison to Red Book but it is a very lucrative business as a niche.

Sony is going to look at SACD and weigh their investment relative to the amount of capital invested and:

1. SACD royaltees
2. Pro equipment sales
3. Software sales
4. Hardware sales

Based on Brian Moura's comments this is a healthy business for them. It also has intangible benefits in that it solves their archiving problem, one of its original goals, and it extends the technology innovation and brand name. Sony has one of the most widely recognized and positively viewed brands in spite of difficult recent times.

 

Where are your assumptions coming from? Some are definitely buying SACDs precisely because they are hi-rez. Many are buying SACDs because they are multi-channel, but some are buying SACDs just because they sound better than CDs.

 

First, when I say no one I don't mean it in the literal sense. Of course some discs are sold because they are hires, I'm sure every sale Chad and Red Trumpet make are done because of sound. However in the grand scheme of things those sales don't mean an awful lot compared to total sales.

Second, my assumptions are based on the research I've seen on why people are buying these discs.

As I said above, we all have a point of view and everyone thinks that everyone feels the same way.

 

Gabe,

We often agree but in this case isn't the better analysis to assume this is a niche and Acoustic Sounds and Red Trumpet are looking at profitability of the line as a whole and not against the mainstream Red Book product?

My point is that this is actually a fine business for many medium sized and smaller labels. Chesky is doing good business with the format and will likely continue offering SACDs. Chad tells me it is a very, very strong seller. Groove Note and MusicDirect both raved about sales at HE2004 and in fact one sent an employee back home to fetch more discs since they ran out of inventory mid-way thru.

Until I hear otherwise, I think any rumors of Sony giving up on SACD are very unfounded. Indeed Brian Moura seems to have heard otherwise from Sony. Sony has too much to lose by leaving early and they have a long history of supporting long-term even marginal products like MiniDisc.

Also, I suspect the investment capital put into SACD is very minimal at Sony compared to other lines like Movies and Games. Return on invested capital could be very high. It's too bad we don't have specific numbers to know for sure.

 

Sony Electronics wants to sell players so the Sony top brass will force Sony Music to release a token number of SA-CD's every so often....that's my prediction.

 

Actually I've checked a couple of your posts and you do like to write in an exciting, "news flash" style. I should have figured out you were using a hyperbole. When we dig our heels in on tooth-and-nail debates like this topic, you might want to keep it pretty straight. I'm a simple guy and don't have much imagination.

 

"I'm going on a shopping spree... I'm buying every Sony SACD I like... because they might not be there tomorrow..."

Just kidding... am I? I don't know anymore... I wish SACD to live long and prosper, but I just don't see Sony pushing the format.

At all.

 

You have to keep in mind that SONY Music has guidelines for profit margins.

Sony Music wont even license out a title from their catalog unless the licensee will guarantee royalties on 10,000 unit sales. They wont do any smaller because.....IT ISNT ENOUGH PROFIT for them.

If SACD doesnt bring in "X" amount of profit for Sony, they will most likely stop any new releases. its as simple as that. It has to make a certain amount of money.
What we, as audiophiles think is of No importance to the people making decisions.

The stuff about "extending the brand name" it utter nonsense. Sony has major products that do that.

Also, I'm reading things here like "SACD represents a major revenue" and I'm just shaking my head. SACd and DVd-A are just not selling, folks. Both formats are not long for this world, and I am VERY sad to have to say that.

 

I'm sorry Mikey but I just don't believe you on this one. I have heard from Sony execs that tell me that they are happy with Sony revenue and it represents several revenue streams. They will keep this format alive for as long as it benefits them and continues to make good money. Have you seen the millions that Sony gets from royaltees in the financial statements?

If Sony was not supporting SACD, why would they not include it in DualDisc?

According to Michael Smith it is because they view it as their main specialty format.

 

If there was ever a label group that supported endless formats EVEN TODAY it would be Sony.

12" Singles
45 singles
CD
LP
Cassette (maybe not)
Mini Disc
SACD
DualDisc (They've been there with Brubeck)
CD Single
Custom CDs from Website (does that count?)

And add to it the best direct support. Can you call an 800# to any of the other labels if your CD was a technical error?

Sony's format support dies HARD!! Didn't they take YEARS before Beta was off the line?

 

Welcome to the 2,348 thread that has turn it to "DVD-A.vs.SACD"
When does the DSD/PCM battle start?
Well at least it isn't as bad as the drivel over at Audio Asylum, they get real nasty over there.
And all is not lost, I did learn one word "hyperbole" Thanks Geoff

 

It doesn't.

 

Mini Disc! Yeah that was a big seller!! I see Sony canned that right away, oh right they didn’t, did they? I guess Sony made the X profit on that? – NOT!

The formats aren’t going anywhere. You don’t tool up and start producing, then pull the plug – its bad business practices. My boss’s good friend is President of Marketing of Sony North America. SACD isn’t going away any time soon! Sony commits to a product and they hold on till its dead and starts to decompose. Even Beta is still available today and I haven’t heard a heart beat from it in years. Till its red line and full of maggots, it’ll be on the shelves.

Also think about this. More and more manufacturers are releasing players with the SACD chip. That means that R&D to incorporate the chip and license agreements with Sony has just been written, the inks not even dry yet. Why would you think Sony has thrown in the towel, there’s no basis in reality in that comment.

 

Never been accused of that, but Ok.

 

Boead....

Hey, I've got an open mind.

But answer this question....if SONY is so solidly behind SACD.......

Where are all the new releases?

 

NOTHING is really selling these days, is it? Although music sales are a bit better than they were this time a year ago, if regular CD sales are not huge, then it stands to reason that SACD and DVD-A would not be flying off the shelves either, in ratio.

With SACD and DVD-A, I draw a parallel with Mobile Fidelity when it was releasing LP's, then CD's. They were for a niche market and priced likewise. The general public basically ignored them because they were happy with regular LP issues or a pre-recorded cassette. And regular CD's were quite satisfactory too.

I think that it's a hard sell to the record labels now because CD's can now have copy-protection encoded in them, which was one of the intended attractions for SACD and DVD-A. Since most don't care about the improvement in sound quality, the multi-channel aspect is about the only marketing thing going for the formats now, in mass market terms.

I expected Mini Disc to up and die years ago (because I liked it of course) but they've now upgraded it with the Hi-MD format where you can record from CD or vinyl in WAV uncompressed. This is obviously to compete with the i-POD and uses a new 1GB disc, but it's compatible with the original MD's (for playback). So yes, SONY does not "pull the plug" on it's inventions too quickly.

 

It's been a consistently small number of new releases but look at the Indigo Girls and the classical albums from Hilary Hahn.

I like the MoFi comparison but in this case we have over 200 labels and 2,300 titles supporting the format so the choice is even greater. It's a niche sure...no doubt...but it's great for us consumers who "get it" sonically and it's the lifeblood for many a quality small business.

 

If Sony was releasing SACDs, I might have to declare bankuptcy.

Actually I recently got David Sanchez--Coral (Sony). Very good SACD, and proof that the spigot has not been totally closed. I hope the next titles that drip out are good ones.

 

And for the answer to where are all the new Sony SACD releases I refer you back to page one, where the music publishers dispute is mentioned. I now declare that this thread has gone full circle.

 

If it's worth anything.....Sony has released in the last few weeks: Indigo Girls...David Sanchez...Incubus....John Mayer.....am I missing any?

 

All these new formats never seem to go nowhere, I bought 8 tracks, Betamax, laserdiscs, they all died a slow death, so now the public is very reluctant to switch to anything new. Blue ray, hi res DVD, what's next?? who knows, I'm sticking to my MFSL cds, no need for anything else right now, what was intended to be listened to in two channels will be listened to in two channels.

 

Please, don't wake the 'multi channel vs two channel" monster up. We're talking about the SACD format, not the number of channels.