Is SONY pulling the Plug on SACD??

You got it backward. It's tough to release stuff that won't sell.

It could be that HFA is taking a harder stance with bigger artists or these artists have more complex contracts or simply tougher managers.

Very well established in jazz in my opinion. Boat loads of good titles there.

This logic only makes sense if you don't consider SACD a niche which I think we have established here several times.

 

You are analyzing this the wrong way IMHO. You need to stop comparing the unit sales versus Red Book CD or DVD Sales. The more appropriate comparison for a niche product is to look at SACD versus vinyl and audiophile CD sales. I talk to Chad Kassem and his team at Acoustic Sounds regularly. They sell a bunch of SACDs and Vinyl but they are always disappointed with DVDA. The economics of both audiophile labels and retailers are very different. They are catering to a select audience with specialized needs. Both vinyl and Super Audio have very good profit margins and are heavily discussed (and promoted) in the audiophile community. This means the format won't go away for a long time and indeed will continue to have a good release slate.

It is hard to get the right numbers for a comparison....you would want to know the profit margin of SACD versus DVDA and how much they are selling. Neither are readily available unless you get a label producer to speak out which is unlikely.

One thing is obvious however...if Universal is only making room for a piddling 35 DVDA titles but a significant 350 SACDs title, an order of magnitude difference, for year end 2004 then we know which format is doing much better.

 

Do they sell a lot of mainstream contemporary pop/rock? Look at their top seller chart. Classical.

Do you think One Little Indian is disappointed with DVD-A sales? I doubt it.

Not analyzing it the wrong way when addressing the 'truth' that DVD-A demand from consumers is a sliver of SACD demand.

Profit margin is not relevant when gauging consumer demand, and that's the 'truth' that I was addressing.

 

I don't think there have been any, aside from the one you mentioned. If you did not have the rider "released at the same time" we can certainly find a number of titles, but I don't know the figures on a title by title basis. My comment was a more general one.

You do seem to be a little dismissive of classical music and jazz.

That's odd. I think it's clear.

 

Comon Lee,

Let's not be negative about DVD-A, or positive about SACD at the expense of DVD-A.

DVD-A is a much more expensive to create (well) and feature laden format than SACD. It takes more time to create a good DVD-A than an SACD, this is why UNI has released more SACDs than DVD-A. It takes more time and care to get the DVD-A menus and extras right. If your hypothesis concerning DVD-A were actually true, UNI would not be releasing any titles in the format at all.

Classical and Jazz are natural formats for SACD. The amount of titles available on SACD in these classifications dwarf DVD-A, which is what skews the numbers. I will admit, however, that if DVD-A had tremendous titles like "Best of TV Theme Songs", "Max Steiner: The Adventures of Mark Twain - Stromberg", "Wilma de Oliveira: Esquina de SP", "ProFive: Wind Quintets", "Andy Hui: Great Collection", "Handel: Arias - Renee Fleming", "Russian Violin Concertos - Fischer/Kreizberg", "Piazzolla: Tangos, Bandoneon Concerto", "John Tavener: New Choral Works", "Trijntje Oosterhuis: Strange Fruit", "Songs by Richard Strauss, Bruno Walter & Joseph Marx - Emma Bell", "A Life of Tango - Alfredo Marcucci" not only would the release numbers be higher and more comparable to SACD, they'd also be flying off the shelves!

Implying that DVD-A "won't sell" is a total fabrication. DVD-A units are being introduced in more car manufacturers next year, and the most common complaint from current owners about having DVD-A in their car is that "there are no titles to buy".

We should spend more time hoping for the eventual success of each format, rather than touting the sales figures of one over the other, when they are not the same beast.

 

Clever choices to make your point. But to be accurate:

• "Best of TV Theme Songs" - EMI Hong Kong (Chinese Pop) [not released in US]
• "Max Steiner: The Adventures of Mark Twain" - Naxos (soundtrack)
• "Wilma de Oliveira - Esquina de SP" - Saidera Japan (Jazz) [not released in US]
• "ProFive: Wind Quintets" - Animato (classical) [not released in US]
• "Andy Hui: Great Collection" - Universal Hong Kong (Chinese pop) [not released in US]
• "Handel: Arias - Renee Fleming" - Decca (classical) [not released in US]
• "Russian Violin Concertos - Fischer/Kreizberg" - PentaTone (classical) [not yet released]
• "Piazzolla: Tangos, Bandoneon Concerto" - Capricio (classical) [not released in US]
• "John Tavener: New Choral Works" - Hyperion (classical) [not yet released]
• "Trijntje Oosterhuis: Strange Fruit" - Blue Note (jazz) [not for sale yet]
• "Songs by Richard Strauss, Bruno Walter & Joseph Marx - Emma Bell" - Linn Records (classical) [not yet released]
• "A Life of Tango - Alfredo Marcucci" - Channel Classics (classical) [not yet released]

However ...

I'll probably get the Renee Fleming if it is released in the USA (she's wonderful); and I'll no doubt buy the PentaTone (consistently excellent SACDs).

I'd be thrilled to get the Blue Note album; there are some great songs on it - but I haven't seen it for sale. I have all the other Blue Note SACDs.

I probably won't buy the Piazolla or the tango album as I already have quite a few tango SACDs, particularly Piazolla.

Linn SACDs always have great sound, and I have 10 Linn SACDs, but they have quite a few other titles now that I'd prefer to the Emma Bell.

I'm not interested in Chinese Pop and have yet to try a Naxos SACD as there have been variable reports.

 

DVD-A can’t be Hybrid with Redbook, correct?

SACD CAN me Hybrid with Redbook, correct?

Of the DVD-A’s and SACD’s I have bought, the SACD’s sound better.

The SACD Hybrid is the solution. It’ll likely sound better, be playable in any player (car, home, PC or portable) regardless if the player is SACD or not. It’ll even play in a DVD player The SACD only disc’s are a problem, they can ONLY be played in an SACD player.

 

Even though this thread has now been derailed into a classic SACD vs DVD-A thread, does anyone have the REAL answer to the thread topic

I have not seen many posts concerning the original linked article and the points made within.

Is SONY pulling the Plug on SACD?? - I ,myself, would hope not and certainly think not.

 

That's not a problem. The market has spoken and, unfortunately for non-hybrid lovers such as myself, hybrid SACDs are the current norm.

 

A similar question was asked on Audio Asylum. Two well-connected inmates responded.

Brian Moura (bmoura) said:

David Robinson (Positive Feedback) said:

 

Yeah, but will Sony ever get any enthusiasim about releasing SA-CD's or is it just gonna be a half dozen or so each quarter? Me, I'd say the latter...

 

for my 2 cents my DVD-A sound as sacd, plus have sympatic options like lYrics and video menu.
some DVD-A need tv on (for menu's etc.) and that is confusing.

ezio gallino

 

No way. If there was demand for DVDA then Universal would release more titles.

Where have you been? The Acura TL has been out for a long time with Elliott Scheiners DVDA system and the Video Rear Entertainment system on the GX and LX Lexus SUVs plays DVDAs and 24/96.

As for implying DVDAs won't sell: that's true. Look at the numbers. DVDAs are NOT selling. They may in the future only if Warner finally decides to promote the format but I betcha the majors focus most of their time on DualDisc.

I agree. Being backward compatible with billions of CD players is more important versus millions of DVD players. The ultimate answer is ubiqitous cheap universals.

 

Lee,

As a matter of fact, I OWN an Acura TL!

The fact that you cannot even admit that it takes a greater effort to create a decent DVD-A than an SACD means that you have a completely closed and biased mind, IMHO.

There is nothing that I can say that can get you to stop your anti-DVD-A stand, so be it. It's not that important anyway. If you can have 2000 titles like "Jug Band Music of the Kentucky Hills" on SACD and be happy, that's fine.

I happen to be a supporter of BOTH formats, and I also put my money where my mouth is by paying for and sole supporting a multichannel forum that is pro-sacd and pro-dvd-a.

If you wish to continue with DVD-A bashing, that's fine, but the title of this thread is

Is SONY pulling the Plug on SACD??

not "DVD-A is a loser".

I suggest we (all) stay on topic. PLEASE.

:-jon

 

You've had your fun - this is a repeat.

Anyway, that album is not on Sony Music.

 

Could it be that Microsofts HDCD was likely the best solution? Its completely backwards compatible to Redbook CD players and doesn’t cost any more (well maybe a buck or two). My $1000 Universal player doesn’t play HDCD yet it plays SACD, DVD-A and MP3’s. I’ve noticed that the HDCD format has almost been completely abandoned. Why?

 

Better stereo sound alone is not enough for the current hifi market, which is focussed on surround. HDCD and stereo SACDs therefore face the same problem.

I've read many times on german hifi boards people complaining about certain pop SACDs having no multichannel layer (Peter Gabriel, Police, etc). Most non-audiophile people think surround is the only advantage of the format and that stereo SACDs are useless.

 

My impression is that if HDCD had any sonic benefits that Steve would have been using it.

 

According to the folks at Sony Music in the U.S., they are continuing to work on future SACD releases.

So I'd interpret it as a rumor.

 

Mikey,

Does the 0.018% refer to the profit made from SACD as a percentage of SONY's total profit?

If so, why would you expect SONY to axe something that is making them money?

 

Possibly the sound of HDCD encoded discs playing on CD players that were not equipped to deal with the Microsonic encoding put him off more than the sound of HDCD encoded discs playing back through a player that did deal with the HDCD bit correctly.

 

At the session, Massenberg made this comment in a humorous vein - suggesting that SACD didn't represent a significant profit area to Sony.

Later on, Sony officials at the event commented that the actual figure from SACD discs and player sales are actually quite a bit higher than Massenberg's guess.

 

Jon,

I think I misread some of your earlier comments regarding the car audio systems so apologies for the confusion there. I must say the Acrua TL system is a terrific one. Elliott Scheiner is a superb engineer and part-time car audio designer. I only narrowly bought a Lexus with the Mark Levinson non-hirez system over this choice.

I like both formats but you cannot ignore that the fact is that DVDAs are not selling. You can't assume slightly higher production costs may explain the order of magnitude different in title availability. What is happening is that there is an established base of audiophiles with demand which lowers the risk to the various labels of producing titles.

Having said all this, I think hirez is very important. DualDisc could perhaps do well and provide all of us additional titles. It could also later lead to additional car mfrs offering a hirez option. So I'm all for that. I just believe demand up to this point has been much stronger for SACD product.

I also am a bit unsure that DVDA production requires significantly more money than SACD. While sure the video and special features may be more (and I hear the per disc royalty rate was higher but has come down) this format also benefits from economies of scale in production as it uses established PCM editing software and DVD mfg lines. So net net I wonder if it is more costly than SACDs, particularly on music oriented discs.

 

Lee, DVD-A is selling to audiophiles. Higher priced SACD's are selling slow too, they're in the same rut as DVD-A. There's a limited market for ludicrously priced software. It doesn't matter what format family said software hails from....IMO.

 

Perhaps, but remember using HDCD requires a fee. It's not free, it adds to the production cost.