I agree. I've been riding motorcycles for several decades If anything motorcyclists I know are empathetic to bicycle riders because they know what it's like to be hung out with little protection for all the gas guzzling trucks and SUVs that could run over our collective faces at any moment. Actually I have had bicyclists being dangerous to me when on my motorcycle by not moving over enough so we can get by so we have to pass in iffy situations.
come on, we always HAVE to hear about their expensive things (cars) and who they know . . . what's wrong w you?
thank you! . . . . . they're about 9' apart (from horn center); klipsch's recommended min spacing is 6' it took many many many trial and error to get the cw's set for a "wide" sound stage. in between listening sessions I would adjust their position. at one time i was about to give up, sell them off, and look for some bookshelf type or small towers. then one day it happened! I finally have that "depth" and phantom center. cw's are great at low volume (a majority of my listening). and the mcintosh c220 provides that nice tubey magic (mullard's for the phono and telefunken for the pre). it's a happy setup.
The spacing between mine is more or less the same. I’d dare to say that even badly positioned the CW sound great, but finding the right position makes them sound like magic. For me, finding the right toe-in angle was the trick. Pure happiness after that. So yeah, they sound fantastic in smaller rooms. I can only imagine that the c220 takes everything to a whole new level.
I don’t like the expense, inconvenience and potential risks of failure associated with tubes, but I have never been able to part with the MC2000 power amp. I would add that Mac tube equipment, if properly cared for, tends to retain its value (save the box if possible!)
Years ago I was in a session at the Hit Factory in NYC and I asked the engineer what kind of amps do you use? He said to have a look - I peered behind the console and saw big blue meters...
I love it , I had a few beers this afternoon and listened for a few hours it is driving some Vandersteen 3a signatures and a Svs sub, it kicks ass !!!
It all depends upon the studio. Sunset Sound in Los Angeles has Bryston. United Recording Studios, before they closed, had Pass Labs amps.
considering replacing my pre-amp with a mac c22 (mk V) for its MC input and other functionality my current pre-amp lacks... just wanted to ask here to get the thoughts of those owning the c22 -- i value a textured, rich and detailed sound as opposed to a more "perfect / analytical" sound. all comments and thoughts would be greatly appreciated -- thanks!
I bought the C22 MKV, IMO it’s a steal for it’s $6500 price. It’s not a classic tubey sounding preamp. If you want that sound look elsewhere. It’s a modern sounding tube sound. Clean and accurate but with the things tubes do best soundstaging with depth and width. The phono is good but not the best. It’s not an afterthought by any means and can compete with most $2500 phono stages. I prefer my Pass XP17 for phono over the internal one. The only option that the MK V lacks is a tape monitor which I would have liked.
Except for the top of the line 2-chassis preamps this is an area I feel McIntosh lags in the value department. The C22 MkV has only (2) tubes in it's line stage circuit which doesn't do a whole lot for your digital sources in terms of tube like tonality or sound stage. It does have a smooth, soft sound. Looks amazing though and many will need it to complete the Mac look with their power amp and system. The Cary Audio SLP-05 uses 6 6SN7 tubes as well as a 5AR4 tube rectifier and an R-Core transformer as well as a 2-chassis power supply isolation. It is $1K more than the C22 but it competes with the twice as costly Mac 2-chassis preamps. The PrimaLuna EVO 400 preamp may come off as McIntosh blasphemy but it has 6 12AU7 tubes and 2 5AR4 rectifiers supporting the line stage circuitry and is $1500 less than the Mac.
A really nice external phono pre is best if your linestage is really nice as is. You might get an upgrade with a full function preamp but most are quite expensive or don't sound as good as separate pres for each source type. The Rogue Audio RP-5 v2 will likely wipe the floor with the Mac pre and do so for significantly less. It has excellent phono and line level stages within. - Bill
My C22 IV is terrific--rich sound as you ask for, but not syrupy as others have suggested. But isn't the Air Tight in your profile a couple of steps up the price ladder? I have not heard the Air Tight, but I lean toward keeping what you have and adding a dedicated phone stage for the same money you would spend on the C22.
Someone, I believe it was in this thread said Mc stuff lacks 'humanity,' as far as sound. That is most likely paraphrasing but that's how I hear Mc stuff, especially the new Mc stuff. So as far as it being "worth it", not to me. Who cares about re-sale if the sound is cold? Of course it's not that way for many people but I really wonder how many buy Mc on status and blue meters alone without even giving other stuff a listen.
When it comes to CD players, they don't really do much (their turntables are made by Clearaudio) So other than putting their "showy" blue meters and casework around it - they're not really in-house designs. Reliability - they are largely a slave to the transport mechanism they purchase (as all CD payer makers are) so even a good one can fail. Most transport mechanisms today are about $5 to $15 other than the likes of the CDM Pro-2 which will run you $500 for the part. Back in the CD player heyday, there were transport mechanisms in the middle and above this range but now it's either CDM Pro-2 at $500 or essentially a sub $17 unit and nothing in between. And the CDM Pro-2 has not been made for what 10 years now - so unless the manufacturer stockpiled a load of them getting the manufacturer to fix or replace them will be tough. Those mid-level mechanisms were the likes of the Philips L1210 which is used in Audio Note entry-level players and the best players from Bryston and Sim Audio - both had to cease CD player production for a time (now use cheap units) when Philips ended production and Audio Note bought massive quantities of remaining Philips transports. I looked through the older Mcintosh CD players and Transports and I did sort of chuckle a bit that their MCD1000 Transport at $7,000 new back in 2005 (or $11,000 in today's money) used a Sanyo SF-91 transport mechanism and rather pedestrian internal parts. Why this sort of bugs me is that this is the exact same transport mechanism in my Cambridge Audio CD-6 CD Player from 1996 and also used in their Discmagic transport - Here is a review of the CD 6 for 250 quid. Welcome to Hifi Choice McIntosh is often considered to be one of the audio jewelry (lifestyle product) makers - at least with parts of their lines. Ie; I would never buy a whole system from them - because they don't design whole systems - they design "whole looks." I think one would do much better sticking to McIntosh power amps - just like sticking to Linn Turntables or Shindo Preamps.
Well, I think that's why a lot of people argue for blind-level matched listening sessions so you don't spend $7k on a CD player that may not sound as good or better than the Cambridge Audio CD 6 for $300 or so in my previous example above. Name recognition bias, physical size and weight, blue pretty lights, meters and hype impact buying decisions all the time. I mean there are cars out there that are objectively bad vehicles that score horrendously on every reliability metric and yet people still buy them. That old Australian saying, "If you want to go out into the bush take a Land Rover, If you want to get out of the bush take a Land Cruiser." I wanted to add that my friend had nothing but problems with his Land Rover and having just gotten back from Manila and taking taxis in absolute wrecks I can support the above Australian saying. So I get into this thing called a Toyota Vios taxi - the thing has bad shocks and the body is in tatters - not rusted but body is dinged to all hell. 15 minutes into the ride the driver has to pull over as it overheated - he poured a gallon or 2 of water into the radiator (while still running and I see water (steam) spewing all over the engine. He then goes to the trunk for a huge bottle of coolant and pours that in (all while the engine is still running) - 5 minutes later he gets back in and the car is good to go. I ask him about this Wreck of a Toyota and he says it is 17 years old. How many miles - 300,000 km - but already went around once (yes 1.3 million kilometers!) Same engine, the same transmission. And I gotta tells ya - this is stop-and-go traffic -- Manila is world renowned for stop-and-go traffic - the worst traffic congestion ever and I have been going to that city for nearly 20 years. So this ain't no 1.3 million kilometers of highway miles this is 35-degree heat all day every day idling. I took two other cabs - same model - both with over 800,000KM - One of them the dashboard was completely off - he had a towel covering it so basically all functioning gauges were dead. But it runs. I am assuming a Vios is a Corolla equivalent because it's too small to be a Camry (incidentally all the taxis in Macau are Camry, and all the taxis here in Hong Kong are Toyota Comforts). Land Rover - lol.
thanks for all the responses and thoguhts on the c22 mk v!! there is quite lot to like about the c22 ...however, the discusion arround going in the direction of a dedicated phono-pre has been spot-on for my situation and immensely helpful. a phono-pre adds another box which i would really like to avoid -- but, the end result will probably be much better than going with an on-board phono. again, very helpful comments -- thanks!!
I agree that Mc errs with its product extensions outside of amps. I don't understand why an audiophile would buy them, although I understand the appeal to people who want eye candy. But I think some make the same mistake in reverse by lumping excellent amps in the same basket as crappy transports and calling them all crappy. There are two distinct McIntoshes--one makes excellent amps, one makes jewelry
No meter chasing here and it wasn't until my 4th Mcintosh piece before I owned some blue meters. I've previously owned plenty of non Mac brands and several amps even had meters. Mcintosh ownership required some creative financing for my situation so it wasn't a purchase I jumped into because of a single selling point. To my eyes the big blue meters look cool and to my ears they're better sounding amps than what I'd owned previously. Those facts also seem to irritate some people which makes Mcintosh ownership even more appealing to me. Congrats to the op on finding out firsthand that yes Mcintosh really is worth the money.
Something to be aware of with older pre amplifiers is that all inputs which are not selected are shorted to ground. This was done in older vacuum tube equipment to reduce cross talk from unused sources. Some modern devices' outputs may not take kindly to being subjected to a short circuit. I know this was an issue with my Mcintosh c11 preamp and I had to physically unplug the output of an audio interface from the preamp when it was not being used.
