Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass Shout! Factory Reissues and "Lost Treasures"

Wow, I *so* disagree!

The Lonely Bull is one of the most evocative moments of it's era.

If you're referring to the production, well, it was recorded in Herb's garage. What do you want? I suggest finding a mono lp and hearing how good it can sound. Vol. 2 also is being unnecessarily bashed by everyone from Herb on down. But, I say thee nay! Vol. 2 is really quite good. It may not have the bouncy swing of later albums, but it hits a mood and holds it in a way I find very appealing.

BTW~~you may not want an un-creamed photo after all. She was pregnant at the time!

 

Not sure, but was it the case that A Taste of Honey was not yet a hit when the album was released and so that title appeared in the same color type as the other tracks and then when it became a hit, it was highlighted?

I assume this is the case. Anyone have any evidence fer or agin?

 

Correct. As I've learned, in WHIPPED CREAM AND OTHER DELIGHTS' original pressing, the words "A TASTE OF HONEY" were the same color as the other highlighted titles on the front. Later issues highlighted it in yellow.

I can't confim this myself as I've not run across any of those originals. The five or six I have around here all have the yellow title, but other members of the A&M Forum seem convinced that this is the case.

 

"Lonely Bull" was indeed recorded in Herb's garage, but also, a lot of those tracks were recorded in mono, and a "stereo" effect for a stereo LP was created by, in some cases, playing additional instruments in the other track to make it "stereo". That's why I prefer the mono LP over the stereo--I grew up with the mono, and the additional instruments are distracting to me.

I don't know where the first two albums were recorded, but starting with "South Of The Border", most of the TJB albums that followed were recorded at Gold Star Studios. And with Larry Levine coming on board with the "South Of The Border" album, this is why you hear a jump in sound quality.

I haven't compared "Lonely Bull" yet, but I agree about the bass--thing is, over other systems (my main systems, headphones, kitchen, etc.), I would hardly notice this at all. I don't have the optional remote level control for my subwoofer, but the thing is, only certain CDs that are either recently recorded with "pop" recording methods (mainly from the early 90s onward, which I usually don't listen to), OR reissues that have had the bass tampered with, will "boom" like this in my car system--it's been a good barometer of those recordings that aren't balanced like they could be. The original CD of SOTB was a bit loud in the bass too, but it was more even and I could dial a little bit of it out with the bass control. On this reissue, certain notes below a certain point "boom" more than others. What I have to do is set my balance more to the front speakers to alleviate it.

I have to wait until at least Tuesday before I can listen to these appropriately at home.

 

I have the mono vinyl and A Taste Of Honey appears in the same color type as the other tracks.

Jason

 

THE LONELY BULL album is credited as having been recorded at Conway Recorders, Hollywood, CA.

There's no recording studio credits at all on either of the two VOLUME 2 releases.

 

Question: was the original THE LONELY BULL--I mean the late 1962 pressing, no other--issued in both mono and stereo, or mono only? I ask because early on, Motown released many of its albums in mono but not stereo(some did get stereo editions later; not all). This practice continued into the spring of 1965, and after that some albums did get a stereo pressing(some already had, but not that many).

A&M was a very small company in 1962/64, just curious. Since Herb & the guys had to overdub parts to make the album stereo, gotta wonder if it was put out in mono first, then, a bit later, fixed up for a stereo release.

 

So here's a stupid question. If all Herb did to The Lonely Bull album to make it stereo was to overdub trumpet on to an otherwise empty stereo channel, does that mean the channel with the rest of the music is the standard mono mix?

Incidentally, is anyone else having trouble finding these? I was only able to find Lost Treasures today, no luck with either of the others at Media Play, Best Buy or Border's. I wound up coming home and ordering the others online.

 

With the track "Lonely Bull", it may be. I've never actually compared! (For those tracks with trumpet-only in one channel, I may try burning a special CD with the "mono" side in both channels.) But with "Acapulco 1922", just going from memory here, they may have put the mono track in the center and recorded separate percussion instruments in left and right channels. Some tracks are true stereo, though. It's very much a mixed bag, sonically. (Not in a bad way...it just shows that the tracks were recorded in different studios.)

Since Amazon closed my loophole (I can't get commission anymore for something I order myself...ya think?? ), I picked them up locally at Dearborn Music in Canton. In fact, they were just unpacking the new releases when I came into the store. I didn't bother with the big box stores at all.

 

I saw all three today at a different Sam Goody store than the one I bought them at. The prices were all a buck higher than list, too - but they were there.

I continue to be mesmerised by LOST TREASURES - a perfect album for a TjB fan who's been largely deprived of 'new' stuff for thirty years. I've barely played the other two, other than to make comparisons, as I'm stuck on the new one.

 

"Lost Treasures" is a fun listen, no doubt about it!

 

Quick comparison today--I finally found the old CD in a storage bin here.

First, I tried a comparison between the new CD and the LP, and gave up: I don't know where my copy was pressed at, but it always struck me as being a dull-sounding LP. This was before I had the new CD--the tracks "South Of The Border" and "Mexican Shuffle" sound way better on the A&M Audiophile version of the TJB's "Greatest Hits", even if they are probably an extra generation of tape away from the original LP. However, since my LP is such a dull pressing (and likely an early one--it's the heaviest stock A&M vinyl I've ever held, too), I can't even use it for a valid comparison. I will have to seek a better copy out.

I next compared both CDs. It's pretty much what Harry pointed out above. To me, the original CD is more dry, noticeably so. The sound is also a little "dirtier"--it makes me think the new CD may be from an earlier generation of tape. But not having ever heard an original, I could only guess at it. To me it just seems to have less of that analog tape "veil" you get when you dub one tape to another.

There has been the idea that both east and west coast stereo masters exist for many of the TJB albums, so this may explain why the new CD has more reverb, AND the fact that it is again missing the spoken intro to "Numero Cinco". The dull stereo LP I have, though, does have a lot of reverb, and is also missing the spoken intro.

As always, it's guesswork with a lot of these A&M albums.

 

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=116164

 

I think I've figured out where I'd heard "Happy Hour" from Lost Treasures before. Isn't that the song Doc Severenson and band would play before and after a stand-up comedian's set on the old Carson Tonight Show? Recognized it right away, never knew what it was called until I heard Herb's version this week.

 

Ah, the olden days.....

Rereading that is a reminder that the decision to transfer just the stereo mixes for these reissues is very, very unfortunate, given that both mono and stereo mixes could fit onto one CD, easily, in most instances(with room to spare!). Both LONELY BULL and !GOING PLACES! are essential in mono, and I would argue all the TJB mono is essential, at times so radically different that to just put the stereo out is a real disservice to fans who remember those versions, and a truly missed opportunity. That Herb preferred stereo is fine and dandy, but it's not like any of this stuff was folded down...

At this rate, the real 'lost treasures' may include the "Zorba"/"Taxi" 45.....

 

I finally got the two remastered CD's in the mail yesterday, and I'm surprised how well The Lonely Bull has held up over the years. Primitive stereo aside, I think I enjoyed hearing this album again more than I did South Of The Border (though I adore the title cut).

I must have listened to The Lonely Bull a heck of a lot as a toddler, because while I didn't recognize the song titles on the package, as each one started up, I found myself thinking, "Ah yes, I know this one..." I didn't get that feeling nearly as much with South Of The Border, and it didn't seem as much of an enjoyable album, though I did enjoy hearing stuff like "All My Loving" (the first version of the song I ever heard all those years ago) and "Up Cherry Street" (though I think I like the version on Lost Treasures/You Smile, The Song Begins a bit more).

Oddly, I didn't think the stereo mixes on The Lonely Bull were all that horrible in general. Herb's added trumpet solution on the title cut still sounds awkward, but it actually seemed to work slightly better on the new reissue than the same cut/mix did on my old Greatest Hits CD. For the most part, the stereo mixes reminded me of the same sort of thing on the first couple of Beatles albums. I've got to get ahold of a mono copy sometime, but what I've got now is hardly the abomination I was expecting.

Now I'm really looking forward to getting in to the later TJB albums, where Herb really got his sound together. Bring on !!Going Places!!, SRO and Sounds Like.... And while Shout Factory is at it, how about a DVD of some of Herb's TV specials. Haven't seen them since the 60's, and my memory of them is foggy.

Speaking of being foggy, here's a question for the Alpert specialists here. After the touring version of the TJB was formed, how much did they start to play on the actual records, or did Herb continue to use session people in the studio?

 

Rich,

We TJB aficianados don't consider the twin-track stuff 'bad,' just crude....things got better soon enough, but it was, after all, recorded on a shoestring budget, and some of it was originally mono-only. It's a fun listen. Again, my only complaint--aside from mild use of NR, if I'm not mistaken--is that there was plenty of room for the superior mono mixes, but they've been forgotten, except by those of us with the good sense to have clean copies of the Lp.

SOTB I like, too, though I still think it's a bit bass-heavy...but adjusting the settings fixed that, just surprising the first time I heard it. Clean sound, this one might be a little toooo clean...but still, great music all around, must've played both of these a half dozen times so far...

 

I grew up with all the TJB albums, in regular rotation, but I'm still drawn to certain favorites which change depending on my mood. For some reason, I've always had a fondness for South Of The Border, maybe due to the "big" sound of it. (Lots of Gold Star reverb. ) Lonely Bull has always had an interesting "raw" quality to it that is appealing--basically, Herb in search of a particular style.

No, it's not all that bad! (The Beatles' albums...now THOSE bug me! ) But yes, you should get the mono LP since it does have some unique mixes on it, along with the different trumpet solo on "Crawfish". It's odd how in this case, I grew up with the mono LP and before I knew any better, I'd heard the stereo version of the album and realized that something was different, not quite the way I'd remembered it, but couldn't put my finger on it. Wasn't until I started hanging out with other TJB fans in the mid 90s where we started to notice a few of these differences.

These videos circulate on eBay quite a bit. Quality's not good, but workable. I only have the video for the "Beat Of The Brass" special, and it's pretty rough. Amusing, though, how dated everything looks.

Nobody knows for sure, unfortunately! The touring band was assembled after Whipped Cream became such a smash. Here's something I excerpted from one of the books for the 1966 tour:

BTW, the "Crescendo gig" was the first time a Tijuana Brass played in public, following the success of the South Of The Border LP.

 

Update:

Whipped Cream & Other Delights is being released April 19 with two bonus tracks (and yes, they are food related ). Other than Lost Treasures, this CD will be the only one that will have unreleased bonus tracks. All the rest, so far, are slated to be straight album reissues.

Next date for reissues is June 7th, Going Places, What Now My Love and S.R.O. will be reissued. Date subject to change without notice, of course. (The other two were pushed back a week or two, which is no big deal considering how many years we had to wait for these reissues.)

Finally, a little shameless self-promotion--some of our members have posted articles, or links to articles, about Herb, the Brass, and the reissues in this thread:

http://forum.amcorner.com/viewtopic.php?t=5285

The Washington Post article is especially good...an overview of Alpert's recent doings over the past few years.

 

Hmm, Herb's looking pretty good these days.

 

Just turned 70 on March 31, in fact!

 

Yes, but how is he going to get that trumpet removed?

 

Removed? Didn't he have it implanted in the 60's?

 

I bought these reissues a few weeks ago. I love them! However, it would have been nice for some 45 versions as bonus tracks and/or the mono mixes with the stereo mixes. These CD's clock in at 30 minutes (give or take), so there was plenty of room. Oh well...

I have been buying his albums for the last year or so. Mostly stereo albums. But, with these remastered CD's, I'm going to shoot for some mono albums also.

Although I do have a mint mono copies of "Lonely Bull" & "SRO."

 

Over the past few months I've managed to acquire mono copies of the first nine TJB albums, which were (I think) the only ones released in mono as well as stereo. The mono LPs provide a great listening experience.