Grateful Dead - reviews of official live and Vault releases

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MikeP5877, May 10, 2006.

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  1. ron p

    ron p Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I vaguely remember reading a Betty interview. She said she didn't care for digital. It 'sliced up' the music and she could hear the slices or something to that effect. She also said that she likes a wide open mix or something like that. She knew exactly what she was doing, that's for sure. How about (DP#29), it's two shows from '77. I've had the second set of the Fox Theater Atlanta show for about twenty years now. When my cassette tape was pretty much unplayable they put it on this Dick's Picks. To this day I'm still enjoying it. it's one of those sets that I try to only listen to when I can give it my full attention.
     
    ron p, Apr 13, 2010
    #126
  2. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    If you want to hear the differences in recording styles between Bear and Betty, pull out your copy of Dick's Picks, Vol. 25: New Haven, CT 5/10/1978 / Springfield, MA 5/11/1978.

    From Bear's website:

    Dick's Picks v.25, Grateful Dead Records (GDM) 2001
    One half of this double-show set is produced from one of my more unusual tapes. It is not a journal tape, but is a one I made at a GD show I attended while on the road with Bob Hunter and Comfort, whom I was helping with the PA sound and making (journal) recordings.

    The Dead were playing on one of our days off, and we were in town. I arrived at the New Haven show with my Nagra and a couple of precious reels of blank tape. I was able to convince Betty Cantor, who was at that time the Dead's recordist, to allow me the use of a pair of unused busses on her recording board.

    The board was fed by a split of the stage mics. I was able to choose just a select few of the massive array of mics setup by Healy for the PA. I think he had at least 40 or perhaps more on stage. I may have used 16-18 or so of them- I don't really remember- it could have been fewer. I do not use many mics to get a good mix. In fact, using more mics than the absolute minimum are in my opinion the major reason most mixes of many bands' live shows are smeary have poor stereo separation and lack detail (space). In this package you will have the unique opportunity to directly compare my technique with that of Betty on consecutive shows, using identical resources to mix from. It is a perfect representation of our distinctly different mixing philosophies.
     
    Jerry, Apr 13, 2010
    #127
  3. ron p

    ron p Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    That's a great way to hear the different approaches that were taken. Comments I've seen from Bear on just about any subject I always get the same impression. He always has a well thought out and very specific way of doing what he wants. His point of view somehow always seems the right one. There are a lot of people out there than me who know more about this than I do.

    That Dick's Picks has been out of my rotation for a while now. Some folks love it but I really have to be in the mood to play this one for some reason. It's fun to hear the band get silly once in a while. They sure seem to be pretty looped during the 2nd set of the Wherewolves of London show.
     
    ron p, Apr 13, 2010
    #128
  4. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    I was at both the New Haven & Springfield shows, and I remember at Springfield, the show ended, the house lights went up and the arena cleared, except for the hardcores staying and clapping. We were waiting for our friends outside the women's room, when we heard a cheer go up. We ran back in and got to the stage area before the house lights went down and the band came back for "Werewolves." The girls were not happy that we left them behind.
     
    Jerry, Apr 13, 2010
    #129
  5. ZappaSG

    ZappaSG New Member

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    So what does DP 25 sound like in comparison? Better, worse, different?

    I have to agree that DP29 sounds gorgeous! Big fat sound with a nice ambient feel. Incredible set of shows as well. I have said it for years now...that is one special DP!:righton:
     
    ZappaSG, Apr 13, 2010
    #130
  6. jpmosu

    jpmosu a.k.a. Mr. Jones

    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    DP 29 is perhaps my favorite in the series. Top five anyway.
     
    jpmosu, Apr 13, 2010
    #131
  7. ZappaSG

    ZappaSG New Member

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    It's amazing how quality it is! The first set on 5/21 is splendid and easily my favorite first set from them. The Scarlet>Fire is gorgeous and the final disc is jaw dropping! Heck, the entirety of both shows is jaw dropping, as is that KILLER hidden Not Fade Away on disc two!
     
    ZappaSG, Apr 13, 2010
    #132
  8. electric man

    electric man Member

    Location:
    Minneapolis, mn
    I really enjoy both Betty's and Bears approaches to recording. The much loved shows from 1972, DP 11 and DP 36 are both Bear's recordings. Now Betty's work on DP 29 is really sweet.
     
    electric man, Apr 13, 2010
    #133
  9. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    Listen to the first three songs, then listen to the vocals from "They Love Each Other" on. Reverb city. I'll check, but I'm thinking it's during "Row Jimmy" that the reverb cuts out on Jerry's vocals for a bit before coming back. There's definitely a healthy dose of crowd sound mixed in too.
     
    Jerry, Apr 13, 2010
    #134
  10. electric man

    electric man Member

    Location:
    Minneapolis, mn
    I just picked up a copy of the book" You can't always get what you want" by Sam Cutler, who was the Dead's road manager in the early 70's. On the back cover is the photo of Jerry holding a rifle with a scope with his finger on the trigger. Should be a interesting weekend read.
     
    electric man, Apr 14, 2010
    #135
  11. hbbfam

    hbbfam Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chandler,AZ
    Crimson down to 29.95 on the big A.
     
    hbbfam, Apr 14, 2010
    #136
  12. jacksondownunda

    jacksondownunda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brisbane QLD Australia
    Yeah guys, get this book. Not only the definitive look at the Stones '69 tour and Altamont, but a very candid and intimate look at Garcia and his neighbor Janis in 1970. There's also a very early Cutler/Pink Floyd connection. A very intelligently written book to boot.
     
    jacksondownunda, Apr 15, 2010
    #137
  13. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    Location:
    Upper East Side, NYC
    great information here....a Dead summer for me so getting some good tips on things to pick up...

    would be great to see reviews of the post 2006 releases....
     
    DJ WILBUR, Jul 8, 2012
    #138
  14. couchdave

    couchdave Founding member of Mystik Spiral

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    couchdave, Jul 8, 2012
    #139
  15. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    Location:
    Upper East Side, NYC
    DJ WILBUR, Jul 9, 2012
    #140
  16. *Zod*

    *Zod* Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Springfield does not represent Betty at her finest....the recording is a little muddy, but the general comparison is still a valid one.
     
    *Zod*, Jul 9, 2012
    #141
  17. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    It was actually Bear that asked people to do that comparison. From www.thebear.org

    Dick's Picks v.25, Grateful Dead Records (GDM) 2001

    One half of this double-show set is produced from one of my more unusual tapes. It is not a journal tape, but is a one I made at a GD show I attended while on the road with Bob Hunter and Comfort, whom I was helping with the PA sound and making (journal) recordings.

    The Dead were playing on one of our days off, and we were in town. I arrived at the New Haven show with my Nagra and a couple of precious reels of blank tape. I was able to convince Betty Cantor, who was at that time the Dead's recordist, to allow me the use of a pair of unused busses on her recording board.

    The board was fed by a split of the stage mics. I was able to choose just a select few of the massive array of mics setup by Healy for the PA. I think he had at least 40 or perhaps more on stage. I may have used 16-18 or so of them- I don't really remember- it could have been fewer. I do not use many mics to get a good mix. In fact, using more mics than the absolute minimum are in my opinion the major reason most mixes of many bands' live shows are smeary have poor stereo separation and lack detail (space). In this package you will have the unique opportunity to directly compare my technique with that of Betty on consecutive shows, using identical resources to mix from. It is a perfect representation of our distinctly different mixing philosophies.
     
    Jerry, Jul 9, 2012
    #142
  18. *Zod*

    *Zod* Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I wasn't claiming it to be Betty
     
    *Zod*, Jul 10, 2012
    #143
  19. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Texas
    What's the best single concert from the Europe 72 box set?
     
    monkboughtlunch, Jul 23, 2012
    #144
  20. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    Real Gone is reissuing DP 29 next week. Kinda pricey at $74 (for 6 CDs)

    http://goo.gl/LN0ZU
     
    Stone Turntable, Jul 23, 2012
    #145
  21. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    Stone Turntable, Jul 24, 2012
    #146
  22. highway

    highway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    Hi. relatively new to the dead and did searches and came across these two really excellent threads by Mike.

    Many thanks to Mike. I know it's a longshot and trust me I'm happy to have these reviews to go by ... wondering if there's any possibility of updated these core reviews with any additional live release reviews, Deluxe Editions, boxes, etc. that might've come along in the last six years or so?

    A comprehensive listing of reviews (that the rest of the forum seems to agree with ) is super valuable.

    Thanks!
     
    highway, Apr 18, 2015
    #147
  23. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Northeast OH
    Thanks for the kind words. I'm thrilled that the reviews are still useful after all these years.

    My plan is to consolidate the three previous review threads in to one, and bring it up to the present day (which by the time I finish should include the forthcoming DvP release of 3/26/72)
     
    MikeP5877, Apr 18, 2015
    #148
    four sticks, highway, bmoregnr and 1 other person like this.
  24. giantleech

    giantleech Lord of all fevers and plagues

    Location:
    Manitou Springs, CO
    Still waiting. :waiting:

    Been on a massive Dead archival release acquisition binge lately, so your various review guides have made for a very useful... err... guide. :thumbsup:
     
    giantleech, Oct 21, 2015
    #149
    highway likes this.
  25. hbbfam

    hbbfam Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chandler,AZ
    hbbfam, Oct 21, 2015
    #150
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