Reading this thread got me curious so I just listened to "Girl From Ipanema" on various discs I have. I did find what seems to be the original mix on one cd, a very early one from the "Compact Jazz" series featuring Astrud Gilberto, Verve 831369-2, made in "West Germany" by PDO. Astrud's vocal is on the left and has a nice warm tone, and the drums are on the right. I definitely preferred Astrud's vocal on this disc versus any of the others, including the SACD. Overall the SACD sounds pretty good, though, with much better soundstaging than the cd's I compared it with. I think that both the Getz/Gilberto SACD and the Ella & Louis one are mastered too bright. I notice that Kevin Reeves is credited as mastering both discs. The couple of other Universal Music Group SACD's I have were done by different mastering engineers and don't have this tonal balance, but they are also newer recordings. Still, none of my old Sony titles have the bright sound that Getz/Gilberto or Ella & Louis has. I hope UMG finds someone else to handle their back catalog for SACD reissue. One thing that frequenting this forum has taught me is that some early cd issues not only sound great but are also sometimes the only place to get the original mixes. I had previously been duped by the hype that the latest remasters were always better; now I know that while this is sometimes true, it definitely isn't always the case.
Thanks for the updates on proper channel versions of TGFI. I may have some of these, and will check later today. As for the Ella & Louis SACD, I too find this one a little bright, but not offensively so. In fact I'd have to admit that of the four UMG SACDs I bought (Waters, Ella, Getz and Love Supreme), I consider it the most natural sounding of the four. I'm not sure how the old saying goes, but "be careful what you wish for, you may get it." I know that many of us who've adopted SACD keep wishing for many of our favorites to show up in the new medium, and we await their arrival with eager anticipation only to be disappointed by one aspect or another of the way the new reissue sounds. I don't particularly like being negative about the way a lot of these releases sound because I want to encourage the various labels to keep on publishing them. Neither do I want to sound as if I'm pandering to Steve Hoffman, but I must admit that of the various reissues I've bought from UMG, Sony, Analogue Productions, Vanguard, and RCA Hong Kong, there's no doubt in my mind that Steve's work for Marshall Blonstein are the most noteworthy. IMHO, had Steve been given reign over the UMG reissues, we all would have been praising them to the hilt. I think the evidence shows that SH is correct: in order to do vintage jazz justice, the proper front end needs to be used. And putting that in perspective, it seems to me that a DCC CD has the potential to sound better than its UMG SACD counterpart.
I'm pretty excited with the prospect of Steve working on additional SACD re-issues and I am anxious to pick up the ones that are already released. My ears tell me that the front end does make a big difference. That's why I enjoy my DCC Gold's so much. They are so smooth.
I gave my MoFi CD a spin and you are right about the top end. After some dinking around, I came up with this: 8k and 10k minus 0.5db, 12.5k minus 2db, 16k and 20k minus 4db. Also, the MoFi seems quite heavy, so I cut the low bass by 3db. The vocals also sounded just a tad peaky in the 2k range, so I cut by 1 db at both 2k and 2.5k. The sound is much smoother now! Thanks for the tip, Steve.
I like my DCC Jazz Samba, but would have preferred a DCC stereo/mono gold CD of Getz/Gilberto. I guess I will have to stick to my old Japanese CD pressing until you master it for a hybrid SACD
I have a question about a Getz/Gilberto CD I just bought on half.com. The seller claims that the CD is sealed, but it is in a jewel case, not a digipak like the current remaster. While the current remaster carries copyright dates of 1997 and 2000, the seller claims that his copy carries a copyright date of 1964. This suggests that it is like Raxel's version. My question is do all pressings of the original version of Getz/Gilberto (i.e., jewel case with 1964 copyright date) have the proper stereo imaging (Astrud in the left channel on "The Girl From Ipanema")? Thanks in advance.
Keith, I don't think the current iteration of Getz/Gilberto is in a digipak as the Verve Master Edition was. It may well be that the version you are getting is the original CD pressing from the eighties. I don't have that one anymore, so I can't say whether or not it will have the proper channel orientation. As I recollect it does not.
sgb, if you go into a record store, you will see that the current remastered CD of Getz/Gilberto is in a cardboard digipak. It comes in the "Desert Island Discs" slipcase. I have not seen another version in the stores. Regarding the CD I am getting, it will be interesting to see the channel orientation. The disc that Raxel showed a picture of here has a copyright date of 1964, and he said it has the proper channel orientation. Hopefully the one I am getting is the same one.
Now I'm confused. Proper channel orientation being the way it was on the original stereo Verve LP or the actual master mix?
I can't say, Steve. I'm assuming that everyone is refering to your mention that Astrud should be on the left. As I noted earlier, my original LP was mono, so I never heard TGFI in stereo until I bought a japanese pressing of the album in the early 80's. That had Astrud on the right, as do the Verve Master Edition, Disk 2 of the 4 CD set entitled The Girl From Ipanema: Stan Getz the Bossa Nova Years, which, I assume is exactly the same as the original release on CD (which I had until I bought the boxed set). On several oldies comps I have the song with Astrud both in the Left and right channel (as well as mono). I was unaware that the Desert Island series is also in a digipak.
Astrud's placement may be arbitrary. Who knows where she stood in the studio in reference to anyone else?
I think she was on Stan Getz's lap myself. The point is, if she is on the LFET, they used the master tape. If she is on the RIGHT, they probably used a cutting master copy tape or reversed channels. Unless it's the MoFi version, which matched the placement of the original stereo LP, using the correct ORIGINAL tape. (Oh God, not this again!) The "current" CD version doesn't use the master; it's a digital remix from the three-track. All that really matters is the tonality of the thing. Is it intact, or has it been futzed with?
Steve, sorry for the confusion. By proper orientation, I mean with Astrud's vocals on "The Girl From Ipanema" coming from the left channel. I am looking for a Getz/Gilberto CD with Astrud coming from the left channel. Presently, I have the SACD and Desert Island Discs CD, which have Astrud's vocals in the right channel. Hopefully the CD I am getting from the guy on half.com has the vocals coming from the left channel.
For what it's worth, I read that Verve used the three-channel tape when they made the SACD, as you guessed in your first post.
Uh huh. 3 track remix. The SACD sounds actually good, but.... Sheesh - I donno. I DID hear "Girl From...." today on the Oldies station. Single mix. Ouch! Talk about ravenous editing!
If indeed Kevin Reeves used the original tapes to master the SACD from, I think that's wonderful. It would've been a shame to waste the original 30 ips tapes just to keep the original mix. I'm assuming the new remix is pretty close to the original--I am relying only on memory and common sense that three channels isn't tough to do, certainly not compared to modern situations. Otherwise, Verve might as well have thrown away the 30 ips originals, once the reduction mix was made, if nobody was ever going to dare use them again. This is the opposite extreme of using some convenient PCM master!
