Gentle Giant remasters

Do you guys like that first S/T Gentle Giant album?

It's terrible, IMHO. The next bunch are great!

 

>>>This may be getting off-topic (feel free to PM me if you like), but in short I have found that many a CD that I thought sounded harsh (e.g. too forward, piercing highs, etc.) sounded much better after a system upgrade. One example that comes to mind is Mike Oldfield's Amarok, where there are fast loud sound bursts that rather violently jump out at you when you least expect them...these sounded harsh on my old player (Sonic Frontiers Anthem) but not so on my CEC CD player (the sound bursts are still abrupt as they should be, but the highs no longer jump out 10 feet and smack you in the head - way more controlled). So, it isn't necessarily the disc, and I suspect that some complaints about headache inducing highs may be equipment problems.<<<

It's all very nice, Dobby, but based on your comments in this thread, your taste in mastering seems to differ from mine, and that's the issue, not what equipment you or I have. Bright, crispy loud mastering sounds that way to me whether I am just listening on my JVC (which for some strange reason you seem to think isn't a decent playback deck), on my super insane Bose system in my car, my Labtec speakers on my pc... it makes no difference to me. In fact, it stands to reason that the better the system the *more* revealing bad mastering and overuse of EQ will be. There seems to be a tiny contingent of folks here who almost seem to think that heavily EQd mastering only sounds bad because one needs to invest more money in their sound rig. I don't agree with that philosophy. So I am happy to listen to any samples you might submit of the DRTs, but if I don't like them, just consider that I may not like them because I don't like them, not what system I found time to play them on (which would be my PC in such a case). If they are too loud and EQd, I won't like them on a boombox or a $20,000 rig. That's just me.

>>>I agree with you on the first four GGs - Glass House and Power and the Glory are the only others I care for. I didn't realise until recently that a lot of fans consider Free Hand GG's best. I remember buying that years ago when I was really into GG, and boy was I disappointed - I sold it to a friend<<<

I like those albums but I'm not a huge fan of the post-Octopus material. My reasons are unimportant here, it's just my own taste.

 

I like it and don't feel it is "terrible" by any stretch of that word's meaning. I like the song "Giant," "Funny Ways," there are great songs on that album, IMO.

 

I also really like the first Gentle Giant release, and consider it essential listening for Gentle Giant fans. Although the band's second LP, "Aquiring The Taste", is my favorite Gentle Giant release, it's nice to hear how band's sound had progressed from the first LP.



Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

 

Was the Mercury release of "Aqcuiring The Taste" any good?

There's a newly remastered version coming from German Repertoire label soon...


Also how does the Mercury debut release compare with the Rep. CD issue?

 

On CD, I thought that the Polygram (Mercury) CD of "Acquiring The Taste" sounded OK, but I prefer the sound of my German Line CD. I've never heard the Repertoire CD, but it would be tough to beat the Line CD for digital listening.

IMO, this is another release that is best heard on import vinyl. I've got a second pressing UK Vertigo space-label LP which sounds way better than either of the CD releases mentioned above.



Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

 

I like it, but less so than the next few. Each song is very distinct, and perhaps it doesn't flow as an album that well, but there are a few goodies (Isn't it Quiet and Cold is a fun one).

 

Actually, I think the issue is how we reach conclusions about mastering or sound quality. Obviously we do not agree on the importance of the audio equipment on the perceived sonics, or that poor equipment will produce sound that is not a very accurate reflection of what is actually on the disc. Also, you seem to have formed an opinion on my taste in mastering based on a few comments of mine about a CD you have never heard. Last word.

 

The inference I've gotten from many postings on this forum is that if you don't have the right audiophile equipment, your opinions on remastering aren't necessary valid...which I (for the most part) disagree with. I'm not saying there will be absolutely NO difference. But IMHO, most medium-priced sound systems today can offer any set of ears a reasonably accurate gage as to whether a mass-produced CD remaster sounds good, bad or ugly.

 

Dobby,

You entered this thread, asked for my opinion and I was happy to try to help. I haven't picked up the In A Glass House remaster.

Looking at my profile, running a google search on my JVC and inferring that this is somehow an unsatisfactory playback deck that will render me unable to give an informed opinion on this remaster is both patronizing and inappropriate, not to mention uninformed and untrue.

As regards our taste in mastering, and the differences in our opinions, I refer not to a "CD I have never heard," but to this:

"I have the Line version of Three Friends, and that sounds muddy and veiled to me. I haven't heard the Line version of Octopus - I have the Columbia version and it isn't too bad. However, the audiophile in me would not be at all surprised to hear improvements upon remastering. In my experience, newer CDs tend to sound way better than CDs from say the 80s and early 90s, and remasters tend to sound better than older CDs (e.g. The Police and Rush remasters). I don't know why that is, I am not in the business - I only listen - maybe they are using better equipment or techniques now."

I have the Columbia _Three Friends_, which I suspect was flat transferred and probably similar to the Line, and I don't find it "muddy" or "veiled." I think it sounds excellent. In addition, I don't find newer CDs tend to sound "way better than CDs from say the early 80s and 90s," etc...

I am not taking issue with your right to feel this way, but I can't follow how you feel that my opinion on the In A Glass House CD issued by DRT will be of any merit? You don't seem to think I have the right equipment and your comments indicate that we don't see eye to eye on mastering trends.

I will hear the DRT remasters eventually, even though they have been heavily criticized for being "too loud." I'll report back after hearing one, and I'll probably just pick up In A Glass House and compare to the Alucard.

 

I like the Alucard remaster better than the original cd I had, but IMO the DRT beats it. The DRT is warmer and fuller sounding with better detail. By the way, the Alucard is the version with the cool translucent cover.

 

I love the first. It's not my favorite (for me the best are Power and the Glory, Octopus, and In a Glass House), but I think it's very good.

 

Bingo.

And the ironic thing is that some of these postings seem to come from relatively new members. I've never heard a gort say that a person with a reasonably priced system can't appreciate the wonders of loud mastering because their system can't handle it, for example.

 

Hmmm, I do feel that my equipment upgrades have drastically changed my opinions on the sound quality of certain CDs, but almost always more in the direction of what most forum members tend to agree on (e.g., that earlier, "softer" masterings tend to sound more alive than many current, more "up-front" sounding remasters). My hypothesis is that poor equipment tends to produce such poor-sounding midrange that a bit of smily-face EQ can actually help liven things up. But with better equipment, more subtle mastering (that can sound "dull" on lesser equipment) really pays off.

 

Are you implying that new members' opinions are less valid than older members?

 

No.

I'm implying that people who have been around and subscribe to Steve's philosophies don't tend to suggest that poor mastering sounds poor as a result of the equipment it's heard on. At least not from what I've seen.

 

There's a flip side to this, one that I've seen expressed here...that those who LIKE the sound of this remaster or that remaster are simply not hearing it "correctly" because they don't have an audiophile system...which would expose the "obvious" flaws in the remaster. So, their opinions on said remasters are ultimately not valid.

 

Very true.

 

I'm just working on GG's "Acquiring The Taste" for REP...


- Eroc

 

Amazon.ca says this disc will be out Dec. 11th, is that right?
I see there is also a Vertigo mini LP of Acquiring the Taste (ASIN: B000CBO044) due out January 26th (and Three Friends too: B000CBO04E ). Is the Vertigo version of Acquiring the Taste an entirely different animal or just different packaging (I'm not sure if Vertigo is related to Repertoire somehow)? Sorry if that is a stupid question, I am new here....

 

I know you are Eroc because I have seen that it will soon be released. I already like the old issue on the German Line label but will certainly give your new one a try!

 

Universal owns Vertigo. No relation to Repertoire. What Universal Japan will use as their source for their Gentle Giant reissues next month, I have no idea, but I wouldn't dump your old CDs! Universal Japan has been improving but for a while their stuff was so hot it was just beyond belief! I have a feeling they got some complaints, but that's just a suspicion.

 

The REP release won't be this fast, I'm just about to send a listening copy to the company today. So probably jan. 11th seems more realistic. Vertigo isn't directly related to REP, but as far as I know Vertigo now is owned by SONY and REP works closely together with SONY since many years concerning CD-pressing, and since january also in the distribution field.

Funny: on the GG's Vertigo CD I read that it was produced by Tony Visconti. I didn't know this until today. I know Tony from the 80's when we worked together on several "Phillip Boa" projects. The world is just a village...

- Eroc

 

Eroc,

What can you tell us about the Acquiring the Taste remaster you're doing. Is this one where you have access to the original master tapes or are you working from copies? Also, how will it sound compared to the Line cd (if you've heard that one)?

Any plans for Octopus, Three Friends, or Gentle Giant?

 

I got a 24-bit DAT from Repertoire, which they ordered somewhere out there, where the O-Tapes are stored (I'm one of the lucky three persons in Germany posessing a 24-bit DAT machine). For comparison I have the Vertigo CD No. 842 917-2 and my own old vinyl, of course.

The Vertigo CD seems to be taken 1:1 from the O-Tapes, I can tell this by recognizing some spots at the very end of some tracks, where I can analyse that typical over-magnetizing boost, which occurs only at the edit-points of tape and leader after some time of storage.The CD itself sounds a little flat IMHO, has some wrong azimuths on some tracks and is not "normalized" to 0 dB peak. Also there's a lot of hiss to be heard (Hi Jeff, hi Mal... ), what is a little disturbing in the quiet parts e.g. at #3 (The House) or #8 (Plain Truth).

Due to REP (and Line!!!) who don't like hiss and noise but weren't able to get rid of it in the past, I have to work on it somehow. But due to my own taste and to some opinions around here I'm very careful. Most of the tracks need a slight high-end tayloring (@ 1.5 to 3 dB at 12 k) to get more brilliance, which increases the hiss slightly, of course. But I'm succeeding in removing that additional hiss plus @ 20 - 30% of the original hiss, so that the noisefloor sounds warmer and is not covering the lowest signals of the flutes or violins. The algorithms are adjusted to avoid any modulation breathing, so it seems to work fine this way.

For compression I'm using a very soft method which always was best for classical stuff like piano-concerts or operas, I did in the past. This method doesn't add any digital artefacts to the signal. IMHO the result now has more details, it "sparkles" and offers more life in the overall-sound.

And it's far far away from Limp Bizkit, Andreas...


- Eroc

P.S.: REP announced some more GG in the near future