Genesis Remix v. Orignal Clip...

I love the 2 channel remix of Trick and Wind. I always thought that the vocals were too quite. I also prefer the remaster of Lamb over the original. The original I just listened to last night and it sounds lifeless. This is a great band that made some great music in all of their periods. Too bad so many flat hate the new releases. Let's hope that the Peter years make more people happy.

 

I'm trying to hold out hope for The Lamb remix coming out at Christmas, but I think we'll get screwed. It's too bad because the DE Remaster of the Lamb sounds lifeless and clinical to me.

 

Try the Classic Records lp. It's great.

 

Great work Jamie, as always. If they're going to insist on hypercompression, we need to apply a little pressure of our own. It's only fair.

 

I have a sealed copy. I'm just waitin' for the right moment!

 

Interesting that Peter used the same mastering engineer for his remasters as Genesis did...

 

My PG remasters and PG SACDs say Tony Cousins remastered them. My Genesis DE's say Nick Davis, Geoff Callingham and Chris Blair remastered them.

The Genesis SACDs were Nick Davis and Geoff Callingham is mentioned, but I'm not sure what he did. Tony Cousins is also mentioned in the liner notes of the Genesis SACDs, but it is unclear to me what he did too. Perhaps his work was just on the "bonus" DVD?

 

I thought Tony Cousins did the mastering and Nick Davis did the mixing for the SACDs. I also thought that the consensus around here was that Tony Cousins is not (largely or at all) to blame for the Genesis SACD compression/EQ love-fest, but Nick Davis. Tony Cousins was not involved in the DE remasters as far as I know.

Best,
Josh

 

Oh I see, I keep forgetting the dreaded word "remixing". And right, I don't think Tony Cousins was involved in the DE's at all.

How do people know Tony Cousins isn't at all responsible for the bad sound? He is given "credit" for mastering them ..

 

Jamie went thru this. He can tell by the sound that much of it was done thru mixing.

I'll try to find the post.

 

Okay that sounds familiar.

Now if I was Tony Cousins and somebody handed me that, I'd say I want no part of this, or at least, please leave my name out of the liner notes!

 

I was sort of thinking of that last night as I tried to digest another round of Abacab on SACD. . .wondering what Tony Cousins thought of the sound quality he had to work with. Sort of reminds me of the Ludwig/McCartney conversation people are having here regarding MAF.

In the end, I think of the Genesis song. . .

Just A Job To Do

Best,
Josh

 

Perfect!

 

Do anyone knows if the original Atlantic CD was a flat transfer from the original mastertapes?

 

There's no time like the present.

 

I doubt that one. It's guess it's possible that the V/C was, though.

 

Hi Jamie and others. The recent UK Times thread got me searching around until I discovered this thread. I never did get around to buying either of the new Genesis boxes and the more I read, the less inclined I am to do so. Having said that, most WMA samples at Amazon and elsewhere sound bad regardless what one is listening to so I can't say that I have heard any of the remixes in full fidelity. Would it be possible to make the clip in your first post available again for a short time?
While I'm at it, thank you very much for your audio contributions to Moody Blues, Led Zeppelin threads etc. I try to get them all.
Bob.

 

This seemed to be the best of the 1976-1982 box threads to resurrect. I picked up the box at a Virgin Megastore closing, so I got it cheap.

CAVEAT: As y'all can tell by my signature, I'm no audiophile and don't have anything remotely close to a really good sound system. All of my listening is generally done at my computer or in my car. I do not have the capability to listen to the 5.1 mix; as a result, I have no comments on those. At some point, I hope to be able to hear those; as it is, I can only listen to the Dolby Surround mix on the DVDs.

Also, my only point of comparison for each album is the respective Deluxe Edition. I happen to really like these editions, but I understand YMMV.

Finally, I'm only commenting on the music here. The DVD extras were the whole reason I bought the box to begin with.

That said, I am completely in agreement with Jamie's assessment, especially on the Dolby Surround mixes. My biggest beef with all of these discs is the lack of dynamic range: every instrument and every sound is at the same level. Phil's vocals are pushed WAY up in the mix, which is already bursting at the seams to begin with. Subtlety and nuance flew out the window when these discs were unleashed.

The sad thing is the remixes are halfway interesting. I understand the appeal of hearing things that weren't there to begin with. Unfortunately, with a group like Genesis, the magic is in the layers: you couldn't hear it because it was recorded at a certain level. Had the remixers applied different volumes (as opposed to mixing it like an AC/DC CD for FM radio), the remixes could've been a much more refreshing experience. As it is.... well, my goodness, the CDs in this box blows the DVDs (again, Dolby Surround only) out of the water, which wasn't that deep to begin with.

Somewhere in this thread someone suggested being able to take the 5.1 channels from the DVD and mix iti yourself. Is that even possible? I'm looking at each file on the DVD and nothing suggests that any of these are the 5.1 mixes.

Overall, three stars out of five:

*Five stars for all the DVD extras and the bonus CD (which IMHO sounds alright; I've only ever heard the "Three Sides Live" tracks and for whatever reason, the higher volume levels work on "Evidence of Autumn" and "Open Door," which I could barely hear in 3SL. The DVD of these tracks is abysmal, like the other DVDs in this box);

*Three stars for the overall presentation (why couldn't they have done for Genesis like they did for the Talking Heads and the Doors: put the original mix on the CD, leave the tinkered-with remix on the DVD? A wasted opportunity if there ever was one)

*Negative-five stars for the horrendous mastering. I'm keeping my DE's, thankyouverymuch. They may be loud, but at least there's some semblance of range on 'em.

 

The DEs aren't loud at all. They are not compressed and are very similar in volume to the original CDs that most here tend to praise.

The complaint about the DEs is mainly the use of no-noise, which really sucked the air out of things. Some of them weren't hit as hard as others.

Anyway... interesting to read your observations.

 

Pretty telling that someone (and I mean this with no offense intended in the least) who admits he's not an "audiophile" and often listens to his music on the computer still can't stand the mastering here.

I've said before that even though I listen to most of my CDs in the car and defend that this is a viable place to enjoy music, I couldn't even get through a single album on the 76-82 set without skipping from track to track.

Unfortunately, by this point everything has been said and with all 3 sets out now, there's just nothing good that can come from our complaints. The whole thing just disappoints me greatly, and I've found myself - like others - paying my money for old Japanese vinyl and V/C CDs to get decent sounding Genesis back in my collection. I still hate that I actually paid good money for the 76-82 set new, but I knew better and didn't buy the second one. I'm still waiting for a good price on the 70-75 set used simply for the Jackson material and the curiosity factor.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - never in the history of CD releases have I come across an official release that is literally painful to listen to. I can deal with a bit of No-Noise, I can deal with masterings made from copy tapes, and I can deal with some EQ choices that others here can't stand. But this set goes so far beyond any other release I've heard - I really think the first post in this thread says it all.

As proud as Barry Diament should be of his work in providing us the best sounding Trick of the Tail on CD, anyone involved in the mastering of the version of TOTT on this set should be just as equally embarrassed by their work.

 

Well, for whatever it's worth, I'm really enjoying the 70-75 box. The remixes aren't so jarring (in fact, I rather like the remix for SEbtP; for some reason, to these ears, it just sounds a lot more organic than the DE) and, while I still prefer the original mixes, IMHO it sounds like the remixers learned their lesson and made the remixes interesting without making the same mistakes on this set that were made on the 76-82 set. YMMV, of course.

 

Ah, my mistake. That's cool, thanks for clarifying.

 

I realize this is likely hyperbole, but I can think of literally hundreds of official releases that sound worse than the Genesis remixes. Start with Vapor Trails, then Californication, Magic, Raw Power, and so on. The Genesis remixes are bad, but by no means the worst. They're more or less par for the course.

 

Thanks Jamie for the clip... yeah, my ears hurt alright! :O

 

Keep in mind that some of these examples were released that way to begin with. Part of the frustration many have experienced with the Genesis demixes is probably that they were used to mixes that were entirely different.

In a way, this probably makes them sound even worse than had they just been schitt in the first place.