Genesis - early CD versions thread

I believe pig whisperer and I have discovered 3 different masterings for A Trick Of The Tail.

Canadian

Track 1
Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 2
Peak level 89.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 3
Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 4
Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 5
Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 6
Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 7
Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 8
Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %

USA

Track 1
Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 2
Peak level 89.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 3
Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 4
Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 5
Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 6
Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 7
Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 8
Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %

UK

Track 1
Peak level 84.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 2
Peak level 73.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 3
Peak level 95.6 %
Track quality 99.9 %

Track 4
Peak level 86.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 5
Peak level 89.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 6
Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 7
Peak level 87.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 8
Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Japan

Track 1
Peak level 83.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 2
Peak level 71.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 3
Peak level 93.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 4
Peak level 84.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 5
Peak level 87.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 6
Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 7
Peak level 85.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 8
Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

 

Hey, leave me out of it. I only work here.

 

The Canadian and US Atco are derived from the V/C Nimbus (your UK) as detailed on Page 1 of this thread. The Japanese numbers are new, but look to track the V/C Nimbus. We have found other cases where there are small level (less than 1 dB) shifts between versions. Any chance you can post a sample for someone like Raf to compare against the known versions?

So I can add your info to the ATOTT entry, could you please supply some further info about the versions, e.g., label, cat. no. and any identifiers (like target or black triangle or ...)?

 

Sorry, I don't know how to post a sound sample.

Japan
32VD-???? [Black Triangle] (Hello Darcy)

UK
CDSCD 4001 Virgin/Charisma
Matrix# CDSCD Mastered By Nimbus

Canada
CD 38101 ATCO
Matrix# 3 38101-2 SRC-03

USA
38101-2 ATCO
Matrix# 3 38101-2 SRC-07

 

I don't know how to post a sound sample.

Catalogue number:

32VD-1032 CDS 4001(CD)
(Virgin/Charisma - black triangle)


Matrix number:

32VD-1032 1A1 TO
- clear plastic to the center. "V" moulded in plastic.


Release date:

1986 [X~87.10.21 H.10.22]
MFD. By Toshiba EMI Ltd. In Japan


Play time:

51:11



EAC stuff compliments of Dave,


Track 1
Peak level 83.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 2
Peak level 71.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 3
Peak level 93.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 4
Peak level 84.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 5
Peak level 87.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 6
Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 7
Peak level 85.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

Track 8
Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %

 

1. Take CD, rip a track from it.

2. Split the .wav file into about clips of about one minute (download any free trial of a .wav splitter online -- just run a google search) each.

3. Upload a clip to Yousendit or any other of dozens of sites that will host a file for free.

 

Is the original Seconds Out c.d. a different mix than the remaster. I have
kept them both (don't usually do that) and have'nt compared them.
Anyone know off hand?

 

No, not a different mix.

My personal order of preference for Seconds Out:

Original unremastered Virgin/Charisma
Original Atlantic CD - Top end boost
DE - EQd

 

Okay, I compared the clips.

These are not exactly all that different, folks. I hear air in the WG press that I don't hear in the UK pressing. A bit of top end boost that causes me to prefer the UK pressing, but how the WG press was ever described as having "poor" sound completely eludes me.

 

Thanks for taking the time, Jeff. I'll amend the entry for the next go round of this thread. If someone wants to go through the 80+ pages of the Genesis CD discussion threads to locate the source of the poor sound quote, please be my guest!

 

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

I think I just found a new mastering (or different peak levels) for The Lamb Disc 1.

The front insert has the gray area around the white picture and the back insert bar code states UK: CGSCD 1, so I presume this is not the Definitive Edition remaster. Plus Disc 2 matches the EAC levels Black Elk posted (post #8).

Disc 1 doesn't match either peak level posted.

Disc 1
[Raf] - V/C Nimbus Disc 1 : 98.1% - 85.5% - 12.0% - 62.7% - 100.0% - 100.0% - 100.0% - 62.5% - 100.0% - 100.0% - 100.0%

Level-shifted copy of Disc 1
[BE] - Atco WEA, US. Disc 1 : 95.9% - 83.6% - 11.7% - 61.3% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 61.1% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7%

My copy of The Lamb Disc 1: 94.8% - 83.7% - 11.8% - 61.2% - 97.9% -
96.9% - 95.6% - 59.5% - 97.4% - 96.2% - 94.3%

The only matrix info is: Disc 1 - CDF 2012 A, Disc 2 - CDF 2011 A. There is no country or manufacture on the discs. What do I have here?

 

Great googly moogly!

This is getting bizarre as thanks to jv66 (who contacted me via PM) it has been found that there is yet another version of Disc 1 on the Canadian Atco release with the following EAC levels:

89.5% - 78.0% - 69.2% - 57.2 % - 91.2% - 91.1% - 91.1% - 57.0% - 91.2% - 91.1% - 91.1 %

which we have determined is a level-shifted copy of the correctly track-indexed version of the US Atco that Jeff found! Yet again, Disc 2 matches with the EAC levels of ALL other copies!

Your copy looks to be a non-simple level-shifted copy of the incorrectly-indexed V/C (the track start for Broadway Melody is in the wrong place, hence the low level for Track 3).

Very weird!

Any chance you can post the track times (in mm:ss:ff) and sizes (in Mbytes) from EAC, that will help confirm whether your copy is derived from the V/C (though the low level for Track 3 should be enough of a giveaway)?

 

Sure, I'll ad that info later when I get home from work tonight.

 

The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway Disc 1

Here are the track times and sizes (in MB):

Tk.....Time.......Size
01. 04:49:13 - 48.64
02. 04:21:30 - 43.97
03. 00:31:60 - 5.34
04. 02:11:60 - 22.17
05. 08:12:65 - 82.91
06. 02:45:20 - 27.80
07. 05:44:47 - 57.97
08. 02:09:43 - 21.79
09. 03:41:00 - 37.17
10. 05:14:25 - 52.87
11. 05:39:50 - 57.14

TL 45:21:38 - 457.83

 

Hmmmm! The disc total time is very similar to my Sanyo Japan V/C: 45:21:00 vs. 45:21:38, however, I was hoping to see some of the interior tracks match exactly in size (they are all very, very close, just not spot on). The first and last track can always be different depending on where cutting starts and ends. However, the fact that Track 3 duplicates the wrong track start leads me to believe that this disc must be derived from the original V/C mastering (coupled with the fact that Disc 2 is identical!).

 

Blueface German pressings

This may be partially due to a post I made concerning the blueface Duke. It sounds poor to my ears. I just don't like it.

Concerning the blueface ATTOT, it's not awful, but my Japan for US Atco is preferable and more musical by a wide margin.

 

Here is the black triangle version of And Then There Were Three:

Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track01.wav

Peak level 84.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1A8E5083
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track02.wav

Peak level 84.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 837DF961
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track03.wav

Peak level 89.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 54475166
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track04.wav

Peak level 78.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 96A48B41
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track05.wav

Peak level 89.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC D33AF88D
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track06.wav

Peak level 94.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 696EA61C
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track07.wav

Peak level 84.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC F3AA733F
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track08.wav

Peak level 85.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC A5FD4DD8
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track09.wav

Peak level 78.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 493D87B4
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track10.wav

Peak level 93.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 73FE8DA8
Copy OK

Track 11
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track11.wav

Peak level 74.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2E91CE43
Copy OK

 

And a sample from the same (32VD-1015):

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=09693AB66B25291C

 

Raf has analyzed this one in the background. It is NOT a level-shifted version of the V/C as we first thought (the Back Triangles seem to be split on that score), but a unique mastering, possibly taken from an analogue copy tape as its waveforms look similar to the Atlantic.

 

For comparison, here is a sample from the Virgin/Charisma (Nimbus):

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=3B15EFB97ED5AB38

 

Okay folks, I think I have gone about as far as I can on incorporating the new information, but before I start Ver. 2 of this thread here's a quick plea for some missing data.

Dave/Darcy - did you ever get around to obtaining EAC data for the following?

VJCP-23117 - Selling England By The Pound

VJD-25022~2 - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway

VJD-28026 - A Trick Of The Tail

28VD-1034-35 - Seconds Out
VJD-25007 ~8 - Seconds Out

VJD-28089 - ... and then there were three...

814 287-2 - Genesis (blue Vertigo swirl)


Other gaps are as follows (assuming we can get the above and that in some cases V/C Nimbus and/or Black Triangle versions exist):

From Genesis To Revelation - all versions other than DCC and Disky

Trespass - MCA Canada

Live - Black Triangle

Seconds Out - Atlantic US

Duke - V/C Nimbus, V/C France

Abacab - V/C Nimbus, Black Triangle

Three Sides Live - V/C Nimbus, Black Triangle (28VD)

Genesis - Black Triangle

Invisible Touch - V/C Nimbus

We Can't Dance - V/C Nimbus, Black Triangle

The Way We Walk - all data

 

I can help with these, but I won't be home 'til late tonight.

 

Here is the MCA Canada version of Trespass (MCBBD 1653):

Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track01.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8520ADAD
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track02.wav

Peak level 83.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 4515CD37
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track03.wav

Peak level 84.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 3FFCC74C
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track04.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 6D37E99C
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track05.wav

Peak level 59.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC D6760B38
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track06.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B066F811
Copy OK

 

I don't think there are 32VD Black Triangles of

Abacab, Genesis or Dance

 

Atlantic Seconds Out disc 1 (3 9002-2.1 SRC+04):

Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track01.wav

Peak level 81.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1BD8F1BA
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track02.wav

Peak level 70.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 7D6BDAAD
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track03.wav

Peak level 81.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2B9551D2
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track04.wav

Peak level 81.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 49F33D53
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track05.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 71ED3993
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track06.wav

Peak level 81.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 0E90612D
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track07.wav

Peak level 95.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B16AB764
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Shares\Desktop\Track08.wav

Peak level 95.5 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC E02BC8CD
Copy OK