Genesis - early CD versions thread

And my WG target doesn't have emphasis.

 

So, this section on ATTWT needs correcting?

Version 2
V/C Blue Face : no data
NOTE: Jeff reported that this is a different mastering to the V/C Nimbus, and provided samples as proof in the main discussion thread (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...d.php?t=131883).

Level-shifted copy of Version 3
[Jeff] - West German Target : 92.6% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 99.5%

This means Version 2 = Level-shifted Version 3?

 

Don't know if this has been said before but my US Atlantic CD and WG target CD are digitally identical except the target has been lowered by a whole 2dB.

But the V/C sounds much better than either one!

 

Are you still talking about ATTWT? That's puzzling, as the data on Page 1 suggests the opposite, and I seem to recall this came up in the big CD versions thread, from which all the EAC data came?

Version 3
[BE] - Atlantic WEA, US : 73.6% - 79.4% - 79.4% - 79.4% - 79.4% - 79.4% - 79.4% - 79.4% - 79.4% - 79.4% - 79.0%

Level-shifted copy of Version 3
[Jeff] - West German Target : 92.6% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 99.5%

Or are you talking about a different Target? How do your EAC levels compare to the above?

 

Did I, or did someone, send figures in for the West German V/C of ATTWT? Not sure if they are any different than the UK V/C... I'm getting so lost in this thread.

 

I have this entry from you:

[maf] - V/C Polygram West German : 92.6% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 99.5%

It matches the WG Target data provided by Jeff and Charisma WG 800059 2 01 (Yellow Rays) supplied by RayistaGeoff, and is a level-shifted version of the Atlantic. We need to wait on Dr. M to respond to see if the V/C WG Blue Face also belongs in this group.

As for the confusion issue, I am working with some of you in the background to update all the information on Page 1, and will create a Mk. 2 version of this thread very soon. It would help matters if we could declare a total moratorium on members buying any more versions of the Genesis catalog on CD!!

 

Maybe I do have them reversed. I have post-it-notes on duplicate CDs with this kind of stuff written on them. Maybe I stuck it on the wrong copy. All I know is the Atlantic and WG target are digitally identical with a volume change and neither one sounds anywhere near as good as the V/C.

 

Black Elk - also perhaps when we're discussing a CD it would be good to make sure the title is in the threads or the heading or something. I'm sure it's just my feeble mind but figuring out which CD is being reference can be an Easter egg hunt.

One thing that will help slow things down is that the earliest CDs are now impossible to find in the shops. With the delay of the new boxed set they're not easy to get at all.

 

Any chance you could run an EAC test on the Target copy and confirm what we already have? Just to remove any doubt!

 

Sorry, I don't have EAC. Is it even available for Mac?

 

No, EAC is PC-only. I guess you could try the other test: listen to both and see which is louder?

 

The V/C blue face belongs in this group. It has the same peak levels.

 

Thanks for confirming that!

 

I'm really interested in your listening shoot-out results.

Of the 6 (or however many) masterings, I've compared only the above two. Just to fill out the data, my US Atlantic stats are: 7 80116-2 [814287-2], Manufactured by JVC Disc America Co. Made in USA, Matrix 80116-2-1T. I borrowed the WG Vertigo from a fellow Genesis fan.

One interesting tidbit, the disks have a different split point between Home By The Sea and Second Home By the Sea: USA Atlantic: 4:53/6:23; Red Swirl 5:08/6:09.

I like the US Atlantic much more than the Vertigo Red Swirl. The Red Swirl mastering isn't terrible, but when compared with the US Atlantic it sounds thin, with the high end being more forward in the mastering. The US Atlantic is more laid back. I hesitate to say this because it is based upon a memory almost two decades old, but the US Atlantic sounds far more like the album I had many years ago. The difference in sound balance is apparent throughout, but most noticeable to me on Second Home By The Sea.

 

The right channel on my amp is being fixed, so I'm in limbo right now.

 

Alas. Hope it gets fixed soon.

 

In case anyone wants to determine the differences once and for all between the WG and Nimbus of Trick, here are two one minute samples:

V/C (NIMBUS):

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=FEA44514725DEC5C

V/C (BLUEFACE WG):

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=D04219935F8D072C

 

Just bumping this.

Raf (or anyone else): did you get a chance to bit compare Jeff's samples? Is the blueface derived from the Nimbus, or something altogether different?

 

The blueface is a different mastering. Sorry I didn't reply; I thought it wasn't necessary because it just confirms what we wrote at the beginning of this thread.

 

FWIW -- the USA Manuf. peak levels are confirmed. My disk's specs: Atlantic 81641-2; Made In USA By WEA Manufacturing
Matrix = 3 81641-2 SRC+10

I purchased a GenCD2 this evening (Holland), and the peak levels match Great Deceivers. The masterings between USA and Holland are different, but the differences are subtle. I haven't had a chance to compare in detail, but I think that I like the GenCD2 disk slightly better because the lower Hz are better heard (without a treble boost or midrange decline). It's almost like they slightly boosted Tony's left hand on Tonight, Tonight.

 

I don't think that "the WG blueface is considered poor sounding" is all that definitive or helpful. That's why I figured I'd upload the samples one last time before deleting them from my hard drive, in case anyone wanted to actually describe what it is that would define the blueface as "poor sounding."

Having said that, I still need to get around to comparing them myself, so...

 

ohh yeeaaah!!!......oohh noooo!!!......hahahaha..
..the blueface sounds very dynamic!!!.....i've compared with my DE...
...now...i think that there is a place in my trash bag to put the DE..

Jeff: Thaank you for the sample...... thank you for help me throwing my DE.....

 

You're right. I was referring to the breakdown of the EAC numbers, not the comments about sound quality. I wouldn't describe it as "poor-sounding" either.

For what it's worth, Black Elk wanted to keep the initial posts in this thread purely as a listing of mastering variations — I was the one who said to add people's comments about sound!

 

Hm, this post slipped by my radar the other day. But now I've had a listen.
They're both good, but I prefer the V/C because it seems to have just a little more oomph in the lower bass

 

You don't expect me to read my own posts, do you???????

As for the issue about the blueface sounding poor, someone must have made that comment in the much larger threads that discuss the various pressings (you can find the links on Page 1). However, if the consensus now is that it is simply not as good as the V/C, I will amend the entry for the Mk. 2 version of this thread.

Jeff: your assessment based on listening to the entire disc will be greatly appreciated.

Anyone else who has an opinion based on listening, please feel free to contribute.

The purpose of this thread, as I saw it, was to try to keep all the version information together so that folks could easily find a particular mastering of a certain title. You will notice that there is no talk of 'holy grail' pressings here. If you want a copy of a preferred mastering, you can see how many options there are open to you, and buy the cheapest, most readily available local copy. The comments about which versions are preferred are drawn from the much longer threads referenced on Page 1 of this thread. I hope we have been accurate in distilling those views. Please let me know if we have not.