Genesis - early CD versions thread (Ver. 2)

James have you seen this picture? I am sure they are bronzed. Here's are more pictures of this release:

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4148/dsc04123j.jpg
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5002/dsc04126j.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/9829/dsc04127.jpg
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/499/dsc04128t.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6220/dsc04129f.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6971/dsc04130qj.jpg

In the bright light discs looks like they have a gold tint, but this is only 'impression'. From the edges they are darker. second disc is starting This are PDO discs and this is bronzig problem, but there is no PDO mentioned anywere. The funy thing is that they still play good, but i can't make any copy. The good thing is that in early 90's EMI Swindon plant re-release this issue and this could be some kind of equivalent of this album.

In the meantime...

I do not know if this issue was already reported in the thread, or not? Anyway I would like to add that the Japanese release of the Genesis S/T album ('Blue Swirl', Vertigo, PHCR-6019, 1991 'Stay Gold' serie) have the same mastering as the Target and Vertigo Swirls

 

Today I recevied an interesting album from Genesis ... And Then There Were Three ..., VJD-102, Charisma / Virgin Japan Ltd., 1988, 2.500 Yen. I had no time to listen yet, but definitely will do it today. This is quite an interesting issue, which was released in Japan along with 'Virgin Best Selection, Limited 30 Edition'. It seems to me that this edition has the same mastering as BT, VJD and VJCP's, but i will check today.

BTW what's the deal with 'Virgin Best Selection, Limited 30 Edition'. I have no found any information about this series. Anybody know?

Regards, Marius

 

I think the V/C is the best for ATTWT. But the Target and BT are close calls for which is #2 after the V/C.

 

Criminy. So I finally had a chance to do a shootout between the 2 Dukes I have. Well, they are in effect the same. If you go back to the beg of the thread and the Duke EAC numbers, I have the Atlantic and the PDO V/C. Before I knew that, I did look at the EQ, and it's almost identical between the 2. Need to get another V/C or two ...

 

Help requested. I would like to get a copy of original Atlantic ones of the following:

- Duke, in order to exactly compare Barry Diament's one (by using a comparison track) to the other two ones I have, i.e. 1994 DE and 2007 5.1. RR (remixed/remastered);
is this one on HMV Japan the one (BD) to go into?

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/84576


- A Trick of The Tail, Barry Diament's one for the same reason as above, however I didn't find anything on both HMV Japan or Amazon.com. Do you have another reference which could have this one in stocK?

- Three Sides Live, Barry Diament's one again in order to compare it to the other two ones (plus the Vertigo's one) and especially to 2009 RR which sounds really fantastic (as for me one of the best sounding Live CD ever, and more or less it is the same for the other live albums of 1973-2007). Is the following one on HMV Japan the one (BD) to go into?

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/84568

Thanks in advance for replying.

A.B.

 

In post 195, I did a shootout for ATTWT. I have not yet done a proper shootout for Duke yet, but based on what we've talked about in the Duke thread http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=232478, I wanted to put the EQ stuff here. I don't have my V/C Swindon yet to do more casual listening vs just quick A/B's for the single track I have now.



The Atlantic is actually pretty close to the V/C Swindon, the yellow line (+/- 2 dB). The Yellow Rays Charisma (YRCh) is the one that's really different. Both the V/C Swindon and Atlantic are smiley faced EQ'ed vs that one. And then the Atlantic has a little bit more low end and midrange than the Swindon. This sort of combines all the graphs that Dr M posted previously, well, except for the UK lp.

I know that Barry said he did Duke, but did he do one of these? Or one that never got released? I was never clear on that.

 

I got my V/C Swindon today, but I only did more quick A/B'ing so far for Duke. Got to tell you, I'm leaning towards the Atlantic myself. None of them sound that great, the cymbals are just awash in mush. No resolution, no distinctness to them, just a smeared "sheen". But I think the (ahem) added (?) bass for the Atlantic at least somewhat balances things out a little. The V/C Swindon sounds too bright, and the Yellow Rays Charisma sounds too thin across the board, and midrangy, IMO. I really focused on the section of Duchess starting at 4:08 to about 5:30. The added low end for the Atlantic is easily apparent, but I think it provides a better anchor for everything above. fwiw.

More later after listening to all of them all the way through ...

 

Listened to all 3 today. Changed my mind. I like the Yellow Rays Charisma the most for Duke, but the V/C Swindon isn't far behind. The problem with the Atlantic IMO, is that I can *hear* the boosted bass and treble too many times while listening to the disc. They *stand out* too much in specific instances. The boosted bass for example: there are bass drum hits in Heathaze that stand out too much on the Atlantic. Yes, I think the treble is too hot for the V/C Swindon, but for whatever reason, it's *smoother* than what we get from the Atlantic, not as offensive. But that Yellow Rays Charisma, just seems like the most *balanced* disc IMO. I think it's truly the most easily crankible one of the 3.

I also quickly revisited ATTWT, because I was curious about picking a #2. The V/C is number 1 for me. ... But there is no #2. Both the Target and B/T fall very short of the V/C for this one IMO. Both are just too trebly. The Target does have more bass, to try and balance or counteract the boosted treble, but ... there is just too much treble on both of them.

 

Good stuff. Thanks, Kevin.

 

Where does the WG sonopress fit into all of this?

 

Don't know. Maybe someone else does?

 

Abacab:



With quick A/B'ing, I kinda like the WG Target the best. Most relaxed and laid back sounding. All of the others have boosted treble with respect to the Target, and the VC and Gold discs have boosted bass as well. (Or ... the Target has rolled off highs? ) It's interesting that the Atlantic has a similar bass level as the WG Tgt though. There are other problems with the Gold disc as have been posted elsewhere. (Clipped peaks? Compressed? Can't remember.)

Hope to do more casual listening over the next several days.

 

Here's mine:

V/C Sonopress, W.Germany : 74.2% - 97.9% - 45.8% - 91.5% - 95.4% - 97.6% - 95.9% - 82.6% - 94.3% - 77.9% - 88.0% - 81.5%

i.e. same as the V/C EMI Swindon. (Version 1 in the list at the start of the thread.)

 

Nice work, Kevin, and thanks for doing graphs!
Not sure that I agree on this interpretation, though ("bolded" in the quote). Granted, the Atlantic has that 75Hz bump, but if the Atlantic and the V/C are level-matched it's more a case of it having less in the below 60Hz and above 90Hz areas, IMO. Which fits better with what my ears (and my system) tell me: I hear a deep end on the V/C that just isn't there on the Atlantic.

 

Yes, you are correct. It's a typical mid-bass boost that gives the appearance of more bass, when really there isn't as much. But that 75 Hz boost, while a benefit to some songs (like Duchess I thought for example), overall doesn't work IMO.

 

Wind & Wuthering:



This one has been discussed a lot in the past. Anyway, DE is no good, *too* bassy. BT I don't think is any good. That typical mid-bass boost "trick", and look at that extreme low end roll off. What's the purpose of that? (In general, for the Black Triangles I've listened to, I don't understand all the love here for them. Rare? Sure. Good sounding? Not in my experience in most cases.) There are things to like about both the Sanyo and the V/C.

 

Thank you for revisiting this. This time I have a few copies to take into consideration. This is what I have at hand:

Sanyo Japan CD
Nimbus (5 dot) CD
Definitive Edition CD
US Atco LP (George Piros)
UK LP
Germany LP

After some comparison I find there are two versions in this list that stand above the others. Number 1 and my favorite is the Germany LP. Second is the US Atco LP. The LP samples are all captured on my system. EQ comparisons to follow. Track used is Eleventh Earl of Mar.

 

This is how the DE compares in tonality to the Germany LP. A lot more energy in the top end and also a bit smiley faced.

 

This is how the Nimbus CD compares.

 

Sanyo Japan:

 

UK vinyl:

 

US Atco GP vinyl.

 

Wow, all of them except for maybe that last US Atco lp, really are missing low bass info vs the German vinyl.

 

One of the dangers of these relative graphs is perceptions like that. Perhaps there's too much bass on the German vinyl.

(Nevertheless, I appreciate the effort that went into logging these data and making the graphs. Very interesting.)

 

A much bigger "danger" is assumptions about vinyl, IMO. If I had a nickel for every time something was "light on bass" and it was assumed that a vinyl copy somebody remembered "rolled off bass to deal with the limitations of vinyl" I'd probably have an island somewhere by now.

Totally agree that it's about how something sounds on one's system, but I've been praising the German Charisma LP around here for a while now. It sounds fantastic to me. Not too bassy. Ymmv.