"Future Of Classic Records" thread (part two)

I assume if listed on Classics website, by general practice, it is still "in print"...


Rick

 

It's a funny thing, but out of print just means 'we won't be making any more', at least in theory. OOP discs and books are traded just like 'in print' ones. There can be stock anywhere, in stores or warehouses, it's still 'out of print'.

There are lots of things listed on websites that aren't actually available. You don't know until you don't get one.

'oop' for a book used to mean, by definition, that it didn't appear in the 'books in print' directory. There is no longer a books in print book, or the LP/CD equivalent the Schwann catalog. It's now officially a jungle out there.

 

Out of print is when the the producer of the record no longer lists it as available, if the producer of the record lists it, as Classic does for all records in print on their website, then it is "in-print" as far as I have always known this is supposed to be the practice.

At this moment, Classic lists 75 titles as "new releases".....

Rick

 

It's just my opinion, and may well be just bad luck but the Classic titles I have bought in the past were generally some of the worst pressings I gotten in new vinyl. I bought the entire RCA Heifetz catalog in 200 gram and returned about half of them. The salesperson at AS told me that so many people had returned those titles he would refund my money, rather than replace because (in his words) the replacements would probably be as bad or worse than the first copies I received. I bought the Neil Young Greatest Hits compilation at Amoeba Records and there were visible crevices in the vinyl, so the salesperson and I checked out 3 copies which all had large crevices in different spots! We did find a clean copy, but ever since then I've been pretty skeptical of Classic pressings.
In terms of mastering I bought the 180 gm "ROLL CALL" from Classic which played fine, but the Music Matter's version blew it right out of the water all counts, fidelity, quietness of the vinyl, and the packaging was like night and day.

 

Interesting, that you mention this title. I was generally a fan of most all of the Blue Note mono and stereo titles from Classic that I picked up. At $30, they weren't cheap, but were generally very good sounding alternatives to originals and later RVG pressings and featured nice cover artwork. And unlike their rock titles, virtually every title I received was perfectly pressed. Roll Call was one of the few Blue Note titles from Classic that left me cold.

The Music Matters series has set a new standard-- with incredible sonics, fantastic artwork and photos, and superb customer service. And their version of Roll Call sounds fantastic. Still, remember that while well worth it, these are $50 records--rather than $30.

 

I think in the case of the Peter Gabriel 45s we are talking days not years. I'm not sure where you get the thirty day idea. It is pretty unusual for an unlimited edition to stop production in such a short time. Themusic.com still had the titles listed at the original price so I ordered them. I hope their website was up to date. This all went down pretty quickly.

As for whether or not this is capitalism...it certainly is. If one doesn't like the prices at AP for certain titles don't buy them. We the consumers control the demand side of the equation. AP *doesn't* have every copy of every Classics title. Once a title is no longer made then the existing stock v. demand will dictate the price. AP is competing with other vendors who have not sold out their existing stock and the used record market and every other incarnation of any given title new and/or used out there. There is no monopoly here.

 

All the complaining in the world won't make a difference if others are willing to pay those inflated prices. I can only vote with my pocketbook. None of these companies care what I what I think--they only care about my money. And please spare me the lectures on social justice and oppression. We're talking about luxury items here--at $33 a pop only the wealthiest people in the world were buying these items to begin with. So many people in the world have no heat, no running water, no electricity, no access to medicine...I'll save my sympathy for them rather than the poor, oppressed audiophiles being "forced" to pay inflated prices for LP reissues.

 

I've simply stopped buying from AcousticSounds for about a year now. The vast majority of the audiophile issues they stock is available from many other dealers that employ more ethical business practices. I'm sorry to hear about what happened to Classic Records, I have had great luck with their 200 gram and regular weight pressings. I managed to get the last four Classic titles I was interested in from Music Direct (not at the AcousticSounds inflated price) and Ebay.

 

A thought while having a nice cup of coffee on a Sunday morning. I love music and I enjoy listening to great pressings. They can be original, reissues, whatever. A nice aspect of what companies like Classic Records offer is that if I want to get a nice pressing of a hard to find album they are providing one for a reasonable cost. Yes, $30 bucks is a lot of money compared to a "normal" cd release but in many cases an original vinyl pressing can cost more in the collector's world. So my point is for 30 bucks the deal is I get a nice pressing from the master tapes or best sources. That seems fair. Now, it seems that it gets complicated when the in print reissues start being treated like the original pressings in collector pricing methods. Will a resissue cost more than a rare original? What is the point or purpose of a reissue? Can a reissue sound better than an original? Yes, but again, what is the purpose of reissues but to bring out a great way for us to hear great music at a fair price. If something is truly out of print then fair enough, market demands prices but if it is "really" still in print then keep to the retail price. I think that's fair. Many other reissue labels communicate pretty cleary when something is in print of out of print. Mosaic does a great job of doing this. When they state "Last Chance" they do not inflate the prices because they "claim" x number of copies remain. They even sell a set for the retail price if they find something in their wharehouse even if the item is oop and going for inflated, collector's pricing. I think the audiophile world needs to treat it's customers with a bit more respect and not only see us as rich, money-bags because many of us are not.

 

More thoughts. Also, I'm still not great on typing from my Iphone......

I am very happy with the reissues being put out by AP but I do not like the business practices of their store. Now the back catalog of CR is controlled by them I'm not surprised by the "collector's" pricing and how it all went down. If some of the CR records are officially still considered in print by CR then they should be sold for the accepted retail prices. This reminds me of the whole AP Fantasy 45's mess. They jacked the prices up on their own product because "they said" only a few copies remaining of certain titles. Was this true or not? Did the license time period run out or what is that all about? I was kind of insulted by that. If they sell out of their product then they did well but if "they" deem it's now worth xxxx amount by their own standards then that kind of breaks the trust of a retail price. If the license period is over then that may be a different story. I just don't like it and this apect turns me off big time about the audiophile world. It's really a bit greedy and a bit dishonest.

 

I've found this thread to be very interesting reading. Just out of curiosity...is there anyone who HAS received a response when contacting Classic with a problem of any sort?

For me, one of the big aspects of determining repeat business with a company (or ebay / audiogon / SH Forums seller, for that matter), is how they respond in the event of a problem.

I've purchased many CR titles over the past few years; however, on the few attempts I've made to contact them with problems, my results have been the same as the folks above. Not even an automated email saying that it's been received...rather, NO RESPONSE AT ALL.

This is unfortunate, as the majority of their product that I have is really great, and their attention to detail (covers, labels, etc.) is generally wonderful.

On the other hand, my experience when contacting AS with a problem has always been pretty good, so hopefully that will spill over to the CR area as well. Yes, AS have been known to inflate prices (sometimes substantially) at times, but in those cases I just didn't make purchases if I felt the cost to be too extreme. (And to be fair, I've gotten some good deals there too.) At least they do seem to stand behind the products they sell if there are issues.

 

Many years ago I used to get responds from CR if there was a pressing issue and they sent me some replacements. I've not heard back from them in the last several years. I found this a bit upsetting.

 

Music Matters raised the audiophile bar, and no one else felt the need to jump any higher.

 

Yes, great product, great customer service. I am very certain that they will keep the $50 price for each album until they have no more to sell. None of this "well, we have less than 50 copies left so the price is now (spin the wheel) $150.99 or "yes, the albums are limited so get them while you can and by the way we are releasing a few additional box sets but they are limited too so don't miss out! (before we jack up the prices on you)". We are treated with respect as customers.

 

The same situation applies to MM titles if you buy from the big 3 online retailers. When they get low on stock the price goes up.
I know of this first hand, before I became a subscriber, I wanted to pick up a few early titles, and I had to pay a premium over retail.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. Long live music and the right to profit? Oh well.....

 

Scott you are mistaken the Peter Gabriel 45rpm began shipping the very first week of January and only became scarce last week so that is 60 days at least.

 

Acoustic Sounds is not being un-ethical, they're trying to make money off an in-demand product. I bet 999 out of 1000 people on this forum would be doing the exact same thing. Heck, just look at the markeplace section here and see what members charge for OOP discs -- it's not exactly the original retail price.

I've always received great service from AS. They package great, and unlike most online vinyl stores they send shipping updates with tracking numbers.

I ordered three Creedence titles from them a few years back that arrived with seam splits, and they mailed me free replacement covers at no charge. They are easy to deal with and returns are not a problem. They also have the best classical vinyl selection of any place I know of.

sheesh I know I sound like an effing commercial, but this thread is crazy.

 

Ethical is a subjective interpretation in this instance. There are music retailers out there that don't mark up their product when they are low on stock or when something goes out of print.

 

Could you list the ones that don't ask more for OOP items? They will have a new customer.

 

And those who wait a REALLY long time can get the same Ry Cooder album for a lot LESS

 

They only became scarce when Acoustic Sounds got the stock and said they are scarce. Titles still on Classic Records site so they are technicaly in print.

 

This thread has some crazy posts. I'm amazed at how many folks here have no clue about how the market for out of print vinyl and CD works. That's all I have to say.