"Future Of Classic Records" thread (part two)

This is the old warehouse find scenario. They kept some back deliberately or found a few copies while clearing out due to poor inventory management. The last Classic LZs were pressed in 2007 when the licence finished. I bought some of the last ones.

This whole situation may be similar to the hypothetical example below.

Company A reissues and manufactures audiophile LP's but is unable to licence new product for some time. Result - dwindling sales and a warehouse full of catalogue stock (still licenced or unlicenced) in an expensive warehouse with staffing costs. Result a cash flow problem. Closure kept at bay by reissuing old titles as 45rpm discs but impossible to continue in business long term.

Company B is a successful company which has its own audiophile label but majors on internet sales and distribution of a wide variety of music products. It has a larger and more efficient warehousing and distribution operation.

Company A sells stock to company B at an advantageious price as B can sell as OOP at higher than retail. It also has spare warehouse space and can improve efficiency by handling the extra now more desirable 'limited availability' product. Meanwhile company A has an immediate cash injection and reduces its operating costs to the minimum by saving on cost of warehouse premises and staff.

A is able to continue in business as a skeletal operation. A) Concentrating on licensing, marketing and producing a more limited product range in the future. B) Supplying a specialist vinyl production service to major record companies.

 

Classic Records is one of the few companies to release all-analog LPs with faithfully reproduced artwork, and yet all most of you can do is spout conspiracy theories and complain about high prices on out of print titles.

If all those now-high-priced records were so important to you, why the heck didn't you buy them when they were available at regular prices?

This place is so ridiculous sometimes.

 

some people don't have the monetary resources others have here............

 

and they blame Classic for this? I don't get your point.

 

I don't mean this to be a political point, but there is *no* argument for this being the capitalist way, and it it really pisses me off when people make this comment. The 'capitalist way' is a shorthand for something and most people have forgotten what it actually means. The 'capitalist way' requires perfect competition (or as close to perfect as possible). A monopoly situation (or an oligopoly, with few sellers) is the *absolute*, *direct* opposite to this. That's why anybody who actually understands what capitalism is (like, say, Adam Smith, for example) is opposed to monopolies, like the sort being described here.

Now there might be other ways to justify what's going on, but saying 'it's just capitalism' is simply false.

We now return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

Geoff

 

I've learned enough about Mr Hobson in that statement to know he's lost my business. Gouge and scalp away my man, you ain't seeing any more of my money.

 

I am late to this whole Classic Record thread about them going under and prices for the OOP stuff going up. I have more CR titles than I can count right now (my inventory system for my vinyl is so out of date that it is worthless).

I gave away my 180 gram CR Zep vinyl when I tried the 200 gram flat profile, it sounded better so I bought the 200 gram and gave my 180 gram away as a gift. This was 3, 4 or 5 years ago. I guess I sould let the person who has the 180 gram ones know that they should take good care of them (they have a Linn TT, so I am not too worried).

I also have one of those CR 45 rpm Zep trunk sets. I have never played it, I think I opened it to be sure all of the titles were there and set it aside, then some boxes got moved in front of it, work got really crazy and I forgot about it, guess I should take better care of it.

I have got to figure out how to retire and get my life back on track.

 

Yesterday morning I ordered some Classic Titles at the ordinary price. I only saw Mike Hobson's statement this morning. I have to say that I was shocked. I understand that he may have hit problems business wise, but have been taken aback at the pricing of Classic product on the AS site. Diverse Vinyl in the UK have not bumped up prices yet and are aware of the situation. They seem to be more ethical on this. However this position may change. Obviously Chad is operating the Airline approach of increasing seat price the closer you get to departure. Unfortunately there are no early specials on Vinyl prices. I just could not afford to buy the titles with the inflated prices. I am glad Classic appear to be continuing but I would have liked more information about future plans. What new titles are in the pipeline. One PG title is pretty weak.

 

Hobson is doing what he can to keep his business alive and the lights on.

Obviously he's not getting rich or he would not have had to sell a warehouse
full of inventory to AS and ED - you can bet he didn't get full wholesale price on it. My guess is the money was needed to pay off forthcoming costs; if you don't have a constant flow of new releases (and they haven't over the past couple years); it's very difficult to get distributors to pay you for what they have already sold.

Recent quality control issues aside, Classic has done an excellent job over the years with a wide and varied catalog and have been a pioneer in both vinyl and artwork quality.

Licensing, even a limited market license, does not come cheap and with major labels doing their own "cash grab" on vinyl recently, I'm sure the price for even a limited-press vinyl deal has risen substantially and most of that cost is upfront ca$h.

Think that anyone that sold his Zep 45 box on Ebay for prices ranging from $1500-$3555 is complaining right now about Classic Records?

 

Why do you assume that every one of the titles Acoustic Sounds is selling is out of print? Where in Michael Hobson's statement does he say that every title is out of print? Where in the Acoustic Sounds e-mail does it say that every title is out of print?

I think it's a safe bet that many titles are out of print and won't be re-pressed. And I'm fairly certain that both Classic Records and Acoustic Sounds know which ones they are. But they aren't telling us, the consumers. Instead, Acoustic Sounds is simply treating every title as though it is out of print, in the hopes that panicked audiophiles will rush out and buy all titles at inflated prices. It may be a smart business strategy -- after all, one of the reasons why Classic Records has a lot of inventory is because many of the back catalog titles must not be selling well -- but it's a lousy way to treat your customers.

 

For people still looking for titles like Kind of Blue, Time Out, Sketches of Spain etc at normal prices, JazzLoft has them all in stock.

https://www.jazzloft.com/search.aspx?SearchTerm=200G&SearchTitle=1

There are still some good guys out there who don't take advantage of their customers. Some people call it "capitalism", I call it price gouging. It's no different than what scalpers do with tickets. Vote with your wallets.

 

That paragraph about Acoustic Sounds is, well, ill-advised, as they say. That story about the Ry Cooder albums, and the discussion of "capitalism" just does not send the right message. Anyway, I would have revised it as follows (what else is there to do on a Saturday night). Man, I'm a good writer - I could have been a PR guy! Well, it's not my regular line of work, Mr. Hobson, but if you have need for my services, send me a PM - I accept Led Zep Flight Cases in lieu of normal fees.

We have recently made some changes in our distribution channels in an effort to cut costs and to increase the availability of our products worldwide. This has resulted in speculation that Classic Records may be going out of business. I would like to personally reassure our loyal customers that this is not the case. In particular, we are making every effort to fill each order that has been placed on our website, themusic.com, and to update the site when our remaining stock has been depleted. We are a small company with limited resources, and apologize for not being able to respond to the large number of phone and email messages that we have received over the past few days. Hopefully, the changes being made to our distribution channels will help to alleviate this problem. Acoustic Sounds, for example, is the largest seller of LP's in the world and has a large knowledgeable staff to assist online purchasers. They have always been a strategic partner for Classic Records, and we look forward to working with them and our other distributors to bring the best possible service to our customers. It also appears that the rumors regarding Classic have led to a huge bump in orders, and many of our titles are now essentially sold out, resulting in increases in the prices for these titles. Please understand that Classic Records has no control over prices charged by third parties (indeed, antitrust laws generally prevent us from trying to do so). While we regret that some will not be able to afford the prices of these titles (not to mention our long out of print Classic Records Led Zeppelin titles), we take some pride in the continuing demand for our products, which we view as validation of our dedication to product quality. We hope that those who have not been able to purchase these titles will be excited by the many new titles that we will be releasing this year.

 

There is a lot of snake oil in this business.

 

Not every title at Acoustic Sounds has an inflated price. I see a number of Who LPs are at-or-close to the price they were before the news hit.

 

Funny you mention the Watkins. It was the one LP years back that I was eagerly anticipating picking up from Classic. I did..and it was -- to put it mildly -- substandard. I still think that the JPN cd edition (TOCJ-5885) reigns supreme. Better even than the JPN RVG mini-lp edition.

 

I have to admit I've been buying up all I can afford at the moment, just in case, as I love the ones I already have (around 30-40 IIRC). I've ordered seven over the past week and fancy a good few more!

Tony.

 

Thank you Michael for getting the message out for us to read. I've been enjoying releases from your company since the late 90's (where has the time gone?) and I'm happy to read that Classic Records will still go on putting out great records!

Best,
Todd

 

Folks, you don't like the product or the price gouging, don't buy the product. Last time I checked we DO live in a capitalist continent, whether we like it or not. Classic Records produces a limited quantity product and the laws of economics apply here. If you are sad you didn't buy the product when it was first released, then shame on you.

I have really enjoyed the Who pressings, and was hoping on getting Pete's Scoop albums anyway. You can say what you want about them, their titles still beat having to track down first UK pressings that go for hundreds of dollars. I won't EVER part with my Band of Gypsys LP ever...nor any of my WHO titles.

 

Price gouging is a vague term made up to express unhappiness with a change in price. Price increases (and decreases) are simply a mechanism to transmit information in a marketplace and that is the essence of capitalism. No matter your views on capitalism, if you think the price for an item is too high then don't buy it. If everyone else feels the same as you, the price will go down.

I don't see why people think they are entitled to buy an item at a certain price indefinitely just because that is what it originally cost, or because that is what it cost yesterday - especially such a fetishized, niche commodity like vinyl records. It may not seem fair, but that is the way the world works.

 

I think they should have communicated better but customer service was never Classic Records strong suit.

HOWEVER, some people here think that Classic Records and Acoustic Sounds are obligated to stick with the original price in perpetuity. Hey if you want it at a certain price and for years did not buy it, can you really complain that now the price went up. Any product that was out for more than 30 days is fair game that way. It's a bummer if you cannot afford it but to expect the company to keep the price the same for year after year till someone rubs enough nickels together to buy it does not make for a good business model.

On the other hand, the lack of quality control and the poor communication by this company indicates that they should take a few pointers from the real classy guys like harley at music matters

 

You raise some excellent points here. Classic does not communicate very well, and they could have at least updated their website. MM and Pure Pleasure are two fantastic companies to be sure.

However Michael IS trying by the looks of it to correct the communication issue, so good for him. Let's hope the company continues to grow and develop

 

I'm fightin' a losing battle here, I know.

In brief, capitalism is a Good Thing (according to some people) because the pursuit of individual profit maximization can actually bring wider benefits to society as a whole. But this only happens when there are lots and lots of both buyers and sellers for products, and preferably as many as possible. This is what a free market is, and this is not what the market we're talking about is like.

Therefore, this is not capitalism in the Good Thing sense. This is just selfishness, plain and simple. Now there are situations where selfishness is rational, and even justified. Maybe this is one of them. But guys, this can't be defended by appealing to capitalism.

Geoff

 

All speculation, but this sounds like a situation where Classic had no choice but to get out of distribution, and needed to get rid of the stock. If people want to complain about increased prices, I suspect that a better target would be AS.

 

I thought that's who people were complaining about.

 

Here is my view on the pricing of OOP records. If a second party dealer and I'll use an example, lets say ACME music is an audiophile record dealer and has a limited supply of an album produced by Columbia and it's OOP then they have all the right in the world to increase the price. If ACME owns a label called ACME Records and they only have a couple of remaining titles of their own label album in stock then they should honor their list price.

The reasoning for this is that it would be very easy for them to license a title press 1000 copies release 500 for sale initially and hold the remaining stock. While legal that's not an honorable way to operate.