Fringe - FOX TV sci-fi/drama (part2)

Deus ex machina.

 

That's it: Peter Bishop sticks his hands into the inter-dimensional machine, there's a huge explosion... and it's at night, and all the Fringe characters are there. A big black government van pulls up, and Mulder and Scully jump out. They run up to the Fringe gang and say:

"Quick! Get in the van with the others!"

And they get inside... and it's the entire cast of Lost.

Peter Bishop says, "wait a minute! Where are we headed?"

And one of them answers, "we're going to keep riding around in this truck until we find an ending that makes sense!"

It ripped my guts out only because I said, "I invested six years in this crap?"

 

No its a beat up old van, and the 3 Lone Gunmen (resurrected somehow) are in it.

 

Hey, it's TV ANYONE can be resurrected.

I used that one time and had someone correct me (I don't remember who it was) so I couldn't remember which variation was appropriate.

Glad to hear I might have been right.

 

I wonder if the baldos are just super evolved humans. Ive been wrestling with the concept of timelines, fate, and the predicting the future and I dont think its impossible.

-I think there are events in time that are inevitable. Fixed points. Those will be there, I think the circumstances that lead us there are fluid.

-Time is like a long spring that can expand and contract and you can travel either through or outside this spring to different points.

-Its like looking at a high frequency wave then zooming into different points on the wave. When zoomed in you think the waves are long and with little ups and downs but when you pull out you see the hum and action peaks and valleys. I think the observers can do this.

-Looking at history and human behavior you can pretty much predict what will happen, not to the exact date but an eventuality. The sun will explode which for us is definitely the end point. When we talk about time I think the discussion turns to evolution and the advancement of mankind as a whole. Look at the ancients Greeks and other ancient cultures that asked the necessary questions needed to better understand themselves and the universe. We need to reignite that curiosity to evolve. To see the bigger picture.

There are two episodes that point to this:

The mathematician episode that just recently aired and the episode where the guy kills people by setting an event in motion that leads to their death.

 

You were right.

 

I was hoping there would be an event in motion that led the writers to put some stories together that make friggin' sense and answer some questions, already.

I have to admit, the show next week (which will be their last for a couple of months) looks very intriguing. I hope they explain why the Baldos like tons of spices, peppers, and tobasco sauce on their sandwiches.

 

They have bad taste?

 

Maybe they like it hot and spicey.

 

Bad Robot!

 

They were raised in Thailand.

 

Anybody know the song playing when Walter is working in lab and Peter & Olivia have a moment together in a side office?

 

As you did with LOST, you're fixating on details that were only meant to be "cool" (not important), and not seeing the forest for the trees. If you want to complain about things not making sense, you could ask why Harvard University allows a patient from an insane asylum to run a Frankenstein lab on their campus. You could also ask why the internet hasn't lit up with stories from the students about bodies being carted in and out of their school on a daily basis and rumors of a cow living in one of the buildings. You could also ask why a shady man with (most likely) a documentable international criminal past was given full FBI clearance without so much as a day of training or debriefing. You could also ask why that same man who started out as a clever con man now seems to operate at a Masters level in every branch of science. (You could also ask why almost every universe-shaking event just happens to occur within driving distance of Boston. Even Mulder and Scully had to hop on a plane for their cases once in a while.)

In other words, on a show like this -- with even more unbelievable plot points than LOST -- you have to either suspend disbelief or accept things blindly. You want to know why the Observers pile Tobasco sauce on their hot chili pepper sandwiches? Because the writers wanted us to know immediately that they are not human, not of our world. There -- now you know. With cancellation looming over the show, and a fifth season looking unlikely, the only questions that matter for Fringe are (1) Will Peter be returned to his timeline (or, will his timeline be straightened out so that their memories and histories match), and (2) Will the 2 universes work out a way to co-exist peacefully. That's it; that's all that matters -- not what kind of straw the cow prefers, or why Fauxlivia prefers bangs, or why Walter has the munchies all the time.

This isn't entirely directed at you, Vidiot; you just provoked it. I fear we're heading to another series endgame where all the "fans" of the show will be gnashing their teeth and rending their garments over whatever personal pet questions they didn't get answered instead of appreciating the overall success of an unusual, quirky, thought-provoking show. I didn't think much of Fringe when it started -- the above-mentioned plot holes (about Harvard and Walter and Peter) were absurdly bad to me; the "look at us, we're cool!" 3-D scene captions were showy and annoying; and the whole show was basically a very obvious X-Files rip-off. But the show had SOMETHING ... the Obvservers were cool, the now-abandoned mythology about "The Pattern" was interesting, some of the MOTW stories were great, and I liked Anna Torv and Lance Reddick.

The season one finale made me sit up and pay more attention; season two was much better, and season three was fantastic (all just imo). Fringe has grown into a really great show -- much better than it had any right to be given its rickety foundation. But Anna Torv has been a rock, and her dual portrayals of Olivia have been nuanced and Emmy-worthy. The Walter character, who seemed like a complete cartoon at first, has been toned down and fleshed out with some tragedy to make his nuttiness understandable. But Joshua Jackson in particular was at the heart of all this for me as a viewer. I couldn't take him or his character seriously AT ALL in season one (he's PACEY, for cryin' out loud!), but now Peter is the heart and soul of the show. His acting has been tremendous and his scenes with both Olivia and Walter have been heartbreakingly real. It probably wasn't intended this way at the beginning, but Fringe is now almost entirely about Peter and Olivia finding each other again, with a sidebar of reconciling the two universes. If they can pull that off by the end of the season, I'll be OK with cancellation.

I know some fans are going to HATE having another mythologically-driven show end up being about "love" -- but I think that's where we're going here, so y'all had better prepare yourselves.

Respectfully,

 

Very good post Sean, Salut!

 

Possibly?
The Ghost Who Walks by Karen Elson
YouTube video

If I have my facts straight she's the ex-wife of Jack White (The White Stripes) and the mother of their two children.

 

That's it. Thanks. Does the Walter Bishop of this world listen to more contemporary music?

 

I'd rather it make friggin' sense. Trust me, it can be done; all you need is good writers.

I think at this point, the entire staff has lost momentum because a) the ratings are way down, b) they're going off the air for almost 2 months, and c) it's very unlikely they're going to have a 5th season. All three are disturbing issues.

The good news is: they'll wrap up what they can this year, and maybe we can get at least a few questions answered.

And I like some elements of the recent shows. One thing, though: if "this" Olivia is starting to get back memories of her romance in the other universe with Peter, why doesn't he just look at the camera, shrug, and say, "close enough" and stay where he is? Boy, I would.

 

Isn't "this Olivia" a substitute and the real Olivia for this universe being held captive somewhere? Peter is gonna be pissed!

 

Cortexiphan Across the Universes!

Who's Shapeshiftin' Who?!

 

No, in the storyline, the real Olivia (the one we knew) no longer exists. They're basically doing a riff on It's a Wonderful Life, presenting a world where Peter Bishop never lived.

One thing I will say about the show: Joshua Jackson is a far better actor than I ever gave him credit for. He's 100% convincing as a guy who's trying to figure out how to survive in a twisted universe, though I wish the writers had kept in more of his original "con artist" character from the pilot. It's amazing how stuff like that kind of gets forgotten about as series develop over time.

I also hope they finally get to the root of the "it's all part of the pattern" plotline, which was constantly referred to in the first season as a unifying element of the weird happenings being investigated by Fringe Division.

 

I agree that Joshua Jackson is quite good in Fringe. I think it was a mistake to leave Peter out of the earlier episodes this season. The last few episodes though have been classic Fringe. Also, I'm impressed with Anna Torv's acting > she's quite good at portraying the different variants of Olivia > and if the show ends this year I look forward to seeing her next project. I hope the loose ended story lines can be explained > it would take brilliant writing to tie up all the major plots to the satisfaction of the fans > but I look forward to the remaining episodes this season.

 

Then why are you still watching? It hasn't made the "sense" you want since the first episode!

Thanks, but I don't need to trust you -- I've watched the television machine for years, and I'm well aware of what the magic men inside it can do.

 

Huh?
They way the story has been presented is:
1. The current Olivia that we see IS the one that we have always known, but is living in an altered timeline (Peter has been extracted, memories changed) and she is now remembering the previous events (this is the most likely scenario IMHO)
2. Or the current Olivia’s memories are being merged or recalled with Peter’s Olivia from another timeline/universe

I have never seen any indication that the original Olivia no longer exists.

 

Eh, there are tons of things that are entertaining to a point without making sense. But even a Bugs Bunny cartoon has internal logic. This is Scriptwriting 101. I only watch six broadcast shows; this is one of them.

It depends on how you perceive separate time lines and alternate universes. If Peter Bishop never existed in a certain time line, then for all practical purposes, the Olivia that knew Peter does not exist. Again, think of my comparison to It's a Wonderful Life: there's a world where George Bailey never existed, so he didn't save the life of his brother on the ice, the druggist went to jail, his Uncle went insane, and the town went to hell -- all in another universe.

The questions of existence become nebulous when you deal in a multiverse. This is basically what they're setting up in Fringe. The problem is, they sometimes violate their own reality and logic, and just throw crap in because they can -- in my opinion.

My judgement on the show is based on working for two years with an ex-associate producer of X-Files, who gave me a lot of inside stories as to why a lot of things made no sense in that series. Stuff happens in television, particularly as writers come and go, schedules get shifted, producers change their minds, stories get tossed, or writers and producers make mistakes. Sometimes, they just hope viewers won't care or notice. But they generally will cop to internal logic issues and come up with a valid real-world reason why they did it, even if it was done to the detriment of the show. Lost is another good example of a very well-made show that fell off the cliff in terms of logic. It's like a terrific hit song that goes way out of tune in the final chorus; you go "wha?"

 

As I recall "the Pattern" elements were answered--they were all of the weird attacks that were occurring from the other side and they seemed to provide some sort of indication of a terrorist assault but we just didn't know where or why.

They referred to it as "The Pattern" because they didn't have another name for it plus it sounded cool and it was before the writers truly knew what they were going to do with it.

I do agree with you--I would have liked Peter to be more of a good conman type guy. WHen they simplified Han Solo's character it made him less interesting as well and I'd say the same for Peter although they did bring in other elements (his complex relationship with his "father") that made him equally compelling.

Still, that's what happens when you have a complete change over in writing/producing staff on a series like this. That was one of the issues I had with "Lost" as well--the new producer in collaboration with Lindoff had to make sense of what they originally created without having to think it through.

What can I say, it's TV.

That's the problem with long story arcs (or an entire series based around a premise like this)--things get "Lost" in the process.

"The X-Files" had the same problem except that they just didn't know where they were going. I suspect that Abrams had a finale in mind and conclusion but it's been modified by newer ideas discovered along the way.

We'll see.

Even with its flaws "Fringe" tends to be one of the more interesting and challenging shows on TV at the moment.