Fremer's review of a 90k turntable system!!

Look at my edited comments above. Do yourself a favor and read the review of the Wavac in Stereophile. You'll see what I mean.

I agree, the ugliness of a speaker shouldn't affect its sound quality. It's just that the Wilson speakers are such an exercise in excess that I am not at all surprised that Mikey loved 'em.

 

You and I will have to respectfully disagree about Mikey. However, based on your comment, in order to be consistent you would have to think that Steve has little credibility because he uses Wavac amps.

 

Ahem.

Mikey + stuff = Happy Mikey.
Mikey + VERY expensive stuff = Very happy Mikey.
Mikey + Paycheck + bling bling + VERY VERY expensive stuff = Gushy, happy Mikey.

His reviews are very interesting and I do enjoy them. However, I wouldn't sell my house because Mikey found a God-like analog front end from heaven.

But nice to know Mikey happy

 

Tell that to the manufacturers of the Marten Coltrane, or Audio Physic Kronos, very high-priced speakers that received luke warm reviews from Fremer.

 

How many turntables will sell for 90k... I hardly doubt they will sell more than 5 pieces ))

 

Well, he didn't like the Clearaudio/Souther 'table. And he loved the $129 NAD PP-2 phono amp.

Maybe this pricey gear does sound really good. Isn't that a possibility?

 

I respectfully disagree. I have read some of his speaker reviews, very expensive, where he had some serious criticisms. The thing is are you demo-ing these expensive systems in your house? If not how do you know they're not well described?

The thing I like about Fremer is illustrated in his review of the Harmonic Technologies interconnects that he liked a great deal but had some serious measurement issues. In that situation he didn't back down from his endorsement, he goes by his ears and I respect that a great deal. Plus there is no denying that he is a very entertaining writer. Here is his comment regarding the cost of the stand.

"That kind of money will buy you a good new car, I know, but if you're thinking of spending $65,000 for a turntable and tonearm, you can afford the extra 25k-and if you're just dreaming, you may as well dream about the stand, too."

Exactly!!

 

I find his writing enjoyable and I would agree with those here who say that if a good but inexpensive piece of gear comes his way, Fremer seems not at all afraid to endorse it in the same breath as the expensive stuff (and he often DOES NOT rave over expensive gear, contrary to some of the misinformation being propagated here).

Just one example: I bought a (relatively) inexpensive digital tracking force gauge I'm thrilled with, based on Fremer's endorsement. In the review he came right out and named names, saying a certain mega-expensive brand (we're talking 4 or 5 fold difference in price) had absolutely nothing over the less expensive one and he gave the cheaper brand I bought a very solid endorsement.

 

Could you name this item and where I can buy one?

Thanks in advance.

 

Well, I spoke to Mark and David on the first day of the show. They had sold 7 world-wide at that stage, including 2 in Sydney and one in Melbourne (Australia). Recall that the Clearaudio Grand Reference (the name is something like that) is over $100k. And Andy Payor (Rockport) is apparently tooling up to make a new turntable to be called the Sirius Series V, and I will guess that this will be in the same league price-wise as the Continuum and Clearaudio.

I'm not in alignment with the comments here that Michael Fremer is totally swayed by price, though I do understand where these come from.

I heard the big WAVACs last year, and they sounded great - but so do the smaller 833s, and my favourites, the 300Bs. I heard the Wilson Maxx2s at CES and they were the only speaker that really nailed the bottom end (the Sly and Robbie rhythm section) on the Sinaed version of "Vampire" - and I mean nailed. So, I'm thinking those big Wilsons are pretty good. One to Mikey.

What I would like to mention is the incredible disparity between Mikey's rave about the CyberLight interconnects and JA's contention that they were "broken". And the CyberLights, while expensive, are not the most expensive i/cs one can by. For example, Valin just loved the new TARA Labs Zeros at $10k.

 

I've seen Fremer knock a lot of expensive gear...I think he is independent minded.

Maybe Continuum will offer a "lite" version for just $25K one day.

 

I am certain this will happen.

 

Huh? You lost me there. Steve didn't review a $300,000 amp and absolutely gush over it, while other reviewers thought it sounded like poop. It's Mikey's PATTERN of being bowled over by ultra-expensive gear that is disturbing, not the fact that he likes Wavacs. Please don't put words in my mouth!

 

Yeah, and don't forget the big deal over the Clearaudio-Souther arm years ago. Michael didn't mind calling them out on its faults, no matter the stink some made over his disapproval...

 

Perhaps you should consider not putting words in Michael's mouth either...

I guess it's OK that you have a poor opinion of him - I can't tell you how to think, even though I don't agree - but your posts on this subject are to my eye as if you are stating facts about Michael, when it's all really just your opinion.

 

I didn't think I put words in your mouth. You don't think Steve using an amp, when he could use ANYONE'S amp, is equivalent to gushing over it? If you discredit Mikey because of Wavac you should be discrediting Steve because he uses Wavac. If not, I think you must have a hidden agenda against Mikey.

I'm out of this.

 

Of course it's my opinion! Reread my posts!

"I find that if the price is outrageously high, Mikey always likes it."

"Truth be told, Mikey likes some cheaper stuff too, but it seems to me more often than not he is more impressed by a price tag than by actual sound quality."

"It's just that the Wilson speakers are such an exercise in excess that I am not at all surprised that Mikey loved 'em."

I think he has zero cred. You like him. We disagree. Big deal!

 

I never put words in his mouth! I think he has no credibility. You like him. We disagree about this. Big deal!

Thank you. Obviously, I am as free to give my opinion as you are to give yours.

 

No "hidden agenda"--I stated outright I think he has zero credibility. I am as free to voice my opinion about Fremer's reviews as you are. The forums are here to support the free exchange of ideas, right?

I think a lot of hi-fi writers have little--or zero--credibility. That's why they do what they do--they write their opinion, not fact, and we are free to accept or reject their opinions. I reject Fremer's opinions. You may not. We disagree. So what. No need to take it so personally. Anyway, I extend the olive branch as I didn't mean to offend you--I was (and am) simply stating my opinion.

 

Partly because of his skepticism of the all mechanical Souther TQ-1 linear tracking tonearm's mechanism. He has convinced himself that it wouldn't work as well as a pivoted arm.

 

Fremer has also stated a general bias against plexiglas turntables, and we all know some of those can sport very high prices.

 

One thing you've got to give him credit is his passion for promoting the vinyl record. But that doesn't mean I agree with his LP reviews, though.

Many of MF's reviews on budget price gear are in his Analog Corner column. The big ticket items get more publicity in full reviews. The last "affordable" equipment he reviewed in full length was the $2,030 Kora Explorer 150SB integrated amplifier in the June, 2005 issue of Stereophile.

 

Michael Fremer has a state-of-the-art stereo system. Of course they're going to give him state-of-the-art components to review. What's the use of reviewing a pair of Epos ESL-3 speakers with WAVAC electronics and a Simon Yorke turntable? Sure, you'll hear the Epos at their best, but who would actually make such a match? It's utterly impractical for such a thing to happen.

They have a couple of guys at Stereophile who specialize in the affordable stuff. Robert J. Reina has been running a modest system for years. Even Art Dudley has a second Rega P3-based system for reviewing affordable components.

As far as Fremer liking everything that's expensive, well, if that was true, and it's not, it reflects the current state of the high-end. There isn't a lot of awful crap out there right now. Most established products in the high-end are there because they are very good. The market will simply not support a bad product. In fact, many good products disappear simply because there are too many good choices. It's like automobiles...there aren't really any bad new cars out there. Even the Kias and Hyundais and Suzukis, the bottom-feeders of the auto-industry, put out decent product, much better than they used to. Today's cheapest Kia is roughly comparable to the best Hondas and Toyotas from about a decade ago, and that's not such a bad thing. That's why Fiat and Renault and Peugeot no longer sell in the US.

The other reason why you don't see a lot of negative reviews in the audio mags these days is because, as John Atkinson has said, people don't want to read about what NOT to buy. They want to read about the good stuff. Why waste precious copy space on bad news?

 

I may have taken your criticism of Michael too harshly as more attacks than just opinion. My apologies...

 

I know someone (on the Forum) who bought the cheaper version of this arm. He could never get that damn thing to work right. He worked with the store, distributor, tried basically anything possible to get things right with it. It did improve with the tweaks, but it was never right.