For sound quality, which Genesis L.Ps should I go after: U.S or U.K

The Classic Records Nursery Cryme is beautiful sounding, but as I listen to the first matrix UK more and more, the Classic is falling by the wayside. The UK seems more "compelling".

It will be interesting to see which version you ultimately prefer...

 

Nobody here said it was. It's hard to think that Piros got an access to the master tape in the UK.

 

Resurrecting this thread to say that I got a UK first press pink scroll Charisma Nursery Cryme today. The record has a fair amount of surface noise that's distracting at times when the levels are low. Some of the noise seems due to scratches from the previous owner. I'm sure some of it is trademark Charisma "goodness." There's a wee little bit of groove distortion here and there on "Fountain of Salmacis."

That's the bad news. The good news is that aside from the surface noise the record sounds wonderful. Tonality is great, the soundstage is deep and wide, and the dynamics are terrific. A very compelling listen.

I've got the Mad Hatter original UK press with the same Hiltop inscription, etc., and while it sounds very good, this pink scroll Charisma beats it by a considerable margin. This may be due to the stamper. The Mad Hatter is up in the 90's on one side and the low 100's on the other. The pink scroll is a 3. (Not a typo: a 3.) Interestingly, the difference I notice isn't in the treble. The Mad Hatter is actually brighter than the pink scroll pressing. Not by much, but by some. That impression may be fostered by the generally lighterweight bass and lower midrange on the Mad Hatter. The pink scroll has a lot more weight and impact, with less of a "peaky" sound in the treble and a sweeter-sounding midrange.

I wish my pink scroll were quieter, but for 10 bucks, it was a great find.

 

Congratulations on your find. Yes, the Pink Scroll Nursery Cryme pressings sound great! That record has been one of my obsessions. I have about six copies of the "JB" "Hiltop" first matrix pressing. After years of trying, I recently acquired an almost Near Mint Pink Scroll. It plays wonderfully and is about as good as I think can be found. Still has mild crackle, but amazingly (knock on vinyl) no pops whatsoever! Stampers are GM (14) on side one and A (3) on side two.

 

Congratulations on your find as well! I certainly understand the obsession with this record. I've been listening to it for many years and I keep finding new depths and delights. "For Absent Friends" acquires even more weight with the passing years. "Seven Stones" has become a huge favorite. And so forth.

I should add that both sides of my Pink Scroll are a 3. There's just one lonely A on both sides. I wish the surfaces were quieter, but the music is 95% intact, and I can listen through the noise almost all the time. Not quite paradise, but pretty darn close.

 

Hmmm. Think I'm going to do some needledrops in a week or two. I have Trespass (UK), Nursery Cryme (Phillips Germany), Foxtrot (UK), Selling England (UK) and Lamb (USA).

 

I have here a copy of Lamb from UK, by Charisma/Virgin (Mad Hatter over blue background, a tinny Virgin logo). Perhaps pressed in or at least before 1986; it is a wild guess, can anyone confirm that date? The vinyl is pretty quiet and the sound seems to be OK.

The only copy that I have here to compare is the very first Brazilian pressing, a decent large Mad Hatter pressed by Brazilian Polygram. The UK copy sounds better, but not so striking better as use to be when one compares good Brazilian with UK pressings. The disk 1 sounds better than the disk 2. It seems that the better sound quality of the UK is in great part due the best vinyl itself and, perhaps, to a better pressing process. If those variables were equal, the Brazilian copy would sound as good as this UK copy, and even better in some aspects.

A curiosity about the differences: the UK copies have a clearly narrower dead wax on all sides: on the side B of disk 2 the UK copy is very narrow, about 7 mm wide, while on the Brazilian copy the dead wax is about 20 mm wide.

So, as I have just this Brazilian copy to compare with the UK Charisma/Virgin, I would like to hear comments about how this UK pressing compares against other more reputed pressings.

 

I haven't found a 2 sided AT/GP of 'Selling England' yet but I'll keep looking. I found a sealed side 2 only that sounded better overall. That Taurus Bass Pedal really shakes the room on 'Firth of Fifth'. On second thought, it's an interesting mastering angle, I wonder what the master tape sounds like tonally. Apologies for the delayed reply.

 

Selling England by the Pound

I have the Classic Records reissue and a few UK early and first pressings of Selling England by the Pound. The UKs are cut by George "Porky" Peckham. My educated guess is that all those pressings are cut directly from the stereo mix master tape.

All the US vinyl versions I've heard sound like tape copies--they have that slight graininess and added tape hiss that I associate with a copied source. The US pressings sound nice, but it seems the UKs have more clarity. Naturally, that's only just my impression, as I've never heard the actual master tapes.

 

Overall, I've always preferred the original UK pressing with the Classic sounding quite incredible as well. Neither of them have the ultra low bass pedals of the US George Piros cut though. I was pondering that perhaps only Piros saw fit to cut his version with the low bass intact, even at the expense of the overall sound quality of most of that particular track. He's always been one to get the bass correct.

 

Selling England by the Pound is over 53 minutes long! That is an exceptionally large amount of music to cram onto two 12" LP sides. Sound quality usually diminishes rather noticeably after 15-17 minutes a side on 12" vinyl--Genesis was seriously challenging the limits of the format. Too bad this music has never been presented on 45rpm discs with one or two songs on a side. It could sound incredible.

Anyway, big bass notes call for big grooves, or so I've been told by mastering engineers. Maybe vinyl cutting engineers who have cut this album had to roll off some of the bass frequencies just to fit all the music on a side. Perhaps only George Piros was able to get the bass pedals on the LP because of his technique, or ability to make compromises elsewhere.

 

There's a lot of factors to cutting. A longer length piece of music can retain its intended dynamic range by reducing the volume while cutting but that affects the signal to noise ratio. I am not knowledgeable on cutting lathes in particular but with lathes in general the tighter its mechanical tolerances the more accurate or precise the cut. This can translate in the case of lacquer cutting lathes to mean the difference between a tighter more accurate low end and 'flabbier' low end. As one probably learns from turntable and cartridge upgrades, flabbier bass can sometimes come across as lower or deeper bass although its not really that. In the case of the Genesis albums here I'm not saying thats the case. I've never A/B compared a US Piros cut to my Porky UK cuts. I imagine though that a good US Piros is a nice substitute for the UK.

 

I picked up a Charisma of SEBTP today and was pleasantly surprised by the quality and bass tightness compared with my two Atlantic pressings.

And the best part? $.69 at the thrift store!

 

Just grabbed one of the large mad hatter pressings you describe. Textured gatefold cover with A1U (Hiltop)/B2U. Side one has "PD" at about 10:00 o'clock. Side 2 has a "JB" at about 10:00 o'clock and 11 11 at about 1:00.

Simply fantastic cut! I have a Classic on the way and will compare. This one will be hard to beat. I can see the appeal of this album having some more top end and I think it is not overdone here at all. Very smooth.

Got some other Genesis LPs as well, including a 1st UK press Trick and a large mad hatter B&C Selling England A//4 B//3 (not a Porky).

 

Blue Philips label early pressings have the word "PM" instead the "GEMA". Not sure if there is any NC with Blue Philips GEMA label (mine is PM) . Good option to have early UK B&C LP pressing are the two Genesis (Vol 1) and (Vol 2) boxes

 

I'm very late to the game, and really can't add much, if anything at all about comparisons.

In the 70's, when I "discovered" Genesis, a friend sent me a live recording on cassette and suggested that I buy the virgin vinyl copies made in Japan, which I did. I bought all their albums though "And Then There Were Three". They sound great to me, but rarely listened to on vinyl.

 

I have a UK Nursery Cryme that is nicer than the US version I had.

 

I've seen no references here to there being three letters in a stamper.

So what would my "GAA" mean?

 

Same code, 133. Not all numbers in the sequence are issued, not that I've seen every copy out there (but check some discographies). There may be official gaps, or alternative reasons for the numbering. I know on sound quality I was always keeping to 2 digit stampers and putting the 3 digit ones back, also wanting Gx ones. Occasionally I'd get some single G, R, A sets and they were worth it.

Hint: Trespass is a lot closer in quality UK <> US. The UK seems a bit dull.

 

I didn't know the numbers went as high as 133.

Has anybody ever compared a early UK Charisma with the early USA ABC Records LP? Also, interesting how it has different gatefold artwork design.

 

It's tricky to make a correlation between sound quality and low stamper numbers on albums with big sales.

Some big selling UK pressings by groups including the Beatles, Pink Floyd and Queen seem to have mixed up the stamper sequence with the mother sequence. In other words, the lower stampers may have a higher mother number (like 3, 4 or 5) and the three digit higher numbers might have a "1" mother number. So which one really was made from "fresher" parts?

 

Ultimately, you have to choose by listening. But you don't really get the luxury of that choice. Perm in condition and it gets worse.

I've consistently preferred lower mother numbers over lower stamper numbers and condition on UK lps. Pretty much since first discovering that all records weren't pressed equal.

I know others don't listen to the things I listen to, though.

 

I prefer the Japanese Promo 1st pressings of Peter Gabriel era Genesis.They have to be 1st pressing Promo's tho, the Japanese "juiced up" the Promo's compared to the stock copies that fine also, but not as good compared to the Promo's.
These pressings love the gain and open up the more you give them without distortion like most other pressings they made.I don't know if it's the quality of there vinyl,there overall process or what exactly, but i prefer them to the great UK pink scroll/mad hatter/classic records issues.

I have a lawyer friend in Japan who has the 1971 1st Japanese pressing of Trespass SFX-7383, he won a rare copy with a real Obi for $5500 on a Japanese auction site like the one below.Way to much for me since he paid %90 more for the real Obi alone.
My copy is same Promo with a Xerox copied Obi he made for me.Nice to look at but i would rather listen to it.
Hard to find Promo's of any of these Genesis 1st pressed titles, later Japanese pressings are not even close in how they sound.