For sound quality, which Genesis L.Ps should I go after: U.S or U.K

Agreed. Start of side two (Here in N.Y.C.) bass pedal notes rattle my house, a real subwoofer workout!

 

OK- I pulled out and listened to the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway "Porky Prime Cut". It's the UK version A/4 B/2 C/5 D/5.

After comparing it with the Classic Records reissue, I prefer the Porky cut.

I still maintain the original recording must not be all that great. Even though I love the music on this album, it has always disappointed me sonically. The voice is mixed very loud compared to the band which makes it a nightmare for any record cutting engineer. The Classic version has numerous explosions of sibilant sssss sounds--"The Lamia" and "Colony of Slipperman" are especially brutal to listen to in this regard. Mr. Peckham seems to have that much more under control making the UK version much more pleasant.

The drums are conversely mixed super quiet, like a *Carpenters record or something Considering how intricate and rocking Phil Collins' drum parts can be, it seems strange that they would be turned down so much on this recording. Did they try to EQ and boost the drums on the Classic version? Sounds like it to me.

Many times the original recording must be pretty muddy, and both versions sound like they are attempting to deal with that. The Classic record sounds like it has a significant bass boost, but I could be wrong. Regardless of whatever EQ or compression has been applied by the mastering engineers, I think the Porky cut sounds smoother--a little more natural. However, I wish my Porky cut was as quiet as the Classic pressing.

Since the UK LLDOB is typically less expensive than the Classic version, I'd go with Porky. Save your money for the Classic Records Nursery Cryme and Selling England By the Pound,which are really exceptional. YMMV


*I happen to like The Carpenters, BTW

 

The last thread here about the Lamb vinyl got messy with personal attacks (those were deleted) but the thread remains. Data shows the Classic has extended and boosted highs and lows but I liked it better anyway. I did a 96/24 needledrop and selectively de-essed those parts you mention. To my ears, some music needs those extentions and, for me, the Lamb is one example. I know that goes against conventional wisdom here.

And, I agree that the Classic vinyl is much quieter. Maybe that swayed me too.

I remember when Trick came out and a review exclaimed something like...Finally, we can hear Phil Collins' drums, or, Finally, Phil Collins' drums were recorded properly.

Oh, BTW, thanks for the tip on the Japanese Wind vinyl.

 

I have a 2nd press UK Mad Hatter which likely uses the same stampers as the 1st press pinky. Other albums I've seen that were originally issued on pink used the exact same stampers for their initial Mad Hatter release. Anyway, mine sounds pretty good to me. This is a dark recording in spots. I heard a Japanese LP version at one point that sounded very similar. Believe it was a late 70s reissue.

To shame in what way? I have the German Philips pressing and find it to be superb. Beat the UK Charisma version I heard, but there may be other UK pressings.

Again, the German Charisma is fantastic. Haven't heard the Classic.

I find the German Charisma beats the UK Porky here. Depends on one's taste. The Porky cut has some serious upper midrange air and gives it life, but I prefer the flatter sound of the German pressing.

Now, you don't work for Classic, right?

Seriously though, this is an album I need to investigate on vinyl further. I recently had the Italian Charisma (gatefold) pressing and found it way too bright. I'll try a UK and German next.

German Charisma is insane. Clean as can be, dead quiet, blows the Porky out of the water and the sample uploaded of the Classic here recently was a bit of a smiley-faced mess in comparison. Given how great the German Charisma sounds, I'm inclined to not bother spending a fortune on the Classic to see if my cartridge would make it sound any better than it did in the sample.

I love the MFSL. I also love the Japanese 1st pressing which sounds very similar. Wasn't too fond of the German Charisma for this one. A bit bright.

The German Charisma kills! Haven't heard the 1st Japanese cut yet but someone here recently reported that in a comparison, the two were very, very close.

Another one where I didn't care for the German pressing. For what it's worth, the German Charisma sounds almost exactly like the original Atlantic CD release. Too bright for me. I'm still looking for a cut of this that sounds closer to the UK V/C CD release, which was boomier with less top end boost.

 

Actually, I was mistaken. My favorite Seconds Out (so far) is a apparently a Dutch Charisma pressing. I don't believe I've heard the German version.

 

Which Pressings aren't on noisy vinyl

A common problem I am finding with Genesis Records are that they all sound mostly great, but are pressed on noisy vinyl. For music like Genesis, this is just unacceptable. Which Atlantic reissues have good vinyl?

 

Yes. Genesis music demands quiet vinyl which gives the Classic versions an edge.

 

The German, UK and Japanese pressings I've heard are very quiet.

 

Then you are lucky ! Most second hand Genesis have been played to death on with abused carts or worse Lenco fluid. So if you can find a mint copy, you must also double check the stampers, the very first pressings and esp. the blue Philips, that were never re-issued are the bomb, since Philips stopped pressing vinyls in 1972 or 1973 . But again problem is finding a mint or near mint copy !
For the Charisma's - depending on the stamper and the origin they are either great or a mess. I remember back in 1973 to 1975 searching a copy of a King Crimson - Crimson King LP that was not noisy during the quiet parts of Moonchild was impossible. Even fresh sealed copies were a mess on those quiet passages.
Back then Charisma Genesis and King Crimson sold like sliced bread and the dutch versions sold for 11.90 or 13.90 DM vs the regular 15.90 / 16.90 for a local german pressing of the same record. UU imports costed 17.90 and Us imports 19.90 DM.

So for early stuff check blue dutch Philips or german Charisma's - avoid the dutch Charisma mass pressings like the plague.. ..
You might even find a good sounding dutch copy - my guess is they just pressed too much copies from a single stamper and those, that exceeded the optimum were noisy and sold to foreign distributors / mass suppliers for an apple and an egg and they sold them then for 11.90 DM via mailorder.
And chances you find one of those are high !

 

As mentioned above, the chances of finding clean versions of Genesis albums is getting more and more unlikely.

Inherently, I think the Japanese vinyl is by far the quietest in terms of surface noise--particularly the JVC pressings on the black vinyl you can hold up to the light and see through. Also, my experience has been that the Japanese vinyls have been preserved the best. Unfortunately, Japanese mastering is usually my least favorite--especially on the earlier albums.

A notable exception is the Japanese Wind and Wuthering. Also, the MFSL Trick of the Tail which was supposedly cut off the master tapes. Both my copies of those albums play CD quiet.

My German pressings play pretty quiet, but those copies have seen some mild use by their previous owners. I would say that in prime condition, the German pressings could sound quieter than the Classics pressed at RTI.

I have never encountered a UK pressing that was truly mint. (okay, maybe Three Sides Live, which I bought new)

US pressings are very hit or miss--since there were so many millions made, the quality control can be spotty. On the average, my experience is that US pressings are inherently more noisy, even in mint condition.

 

Right, but maybe the OP should clarify where he's looking.

I'm often surprised to find that some folks here hope to find everything they want at their local record shop. Sometimes, they then seem to think that even really common pressings are "rare" when they can't necessarily find one locally.

Two minutes on eBay would yield plenty of minty Genesis pressings, it's just a question of how much one is willing or able to spend.

I paid about $15 ea. for stunning, minty copies of some of the early albums on German Charisma. I found them on Gemm. All of them are dead quiet. This was probably about a year ago. I think I paid $20 for a minty German Charisma of The Lamb and it's the best pressing I've ever heard.

 

I recently got a mint copy of W & W Japan pressing from a forum member. It is the best sounding W & W I have ever heard. It was also the cleanest looking used vinyl I have ever purchased. There are nice copies of used Genesis out there it just takes some patience finding them.

 

OK, so you got me curious about the blue Philips Nursery Cryme. I found a couple "mint" copies on the web and one came in today.

After listening to it, I must inquire: have either of you gentlemen heard the Classic Records pressing?

After listening to the blue Philips, I still greatly prefer the Classic version. It's not even close. I will concede that the Philips is the second best sounding copy I've heard--that is, compared to UK Mad Hatter, German Charisma, Minty Japanese, yucky US versions, etc.

I have never encountered an original pink scroll.

Anyway, the Philips copy I received is obviously a quality pressing. It's done to the standards of the classical LPs which are quite fine and rather quiet. It may respond to a good cleaning, since it's somewhat noisy, but no more than a typical UK pressing. But, the mastering is dark and doesn't have much kick in the more rocking passages--which the Classic uniquely does.

Maybe the next Blue Philips copy will excite me more. Either way, thanks for the info, it's great to learn about new things!

 

I haven't heard the Classic of Nursery Cryme.

How is the tonality compared to the Philips?

More bass? More treble?

 

The sound of the Nursery Cryme Philips LP I just got is quite delicate--it really reminds me of the great early 70s Classical Philips records. I really like the way the acoustic guitar sounds at times on this pressing. Also, the voices sound very "natural"--say, on "For Absent Friends". The whole disc is mastered with a rather low gain, much quieter than a typical rock record. I'm sure this was done because the album is so long (side one is over 21 minutes long--comparable to a big symphonic work!). Typically, if the mastering engineer pushes the gain on such a long cut, the grooves will end up quite close to the center, resulting in massive inner groove distortion, and the whole disc is likely to become distorted sounding. In order to work at all, the quiet mastering of this pressing depends on a flawless condition record played on a top system. Any surface noise is likely to drown out the delicate passages.

The amazing thing is that the Classic Record is (at least apparently) significantly louder and fuller, without distortion. They probably rode the tape gain while mastering the Classic--probably not on the Philips.

But, I really don't understand how they got the Classic LP to be much more slamming on the dramatic rock parts, like the end of "Hogweed" or the "Fountain of Salmacis". It's just more vibrant and realistic sounding. Peter Gabriel's voice has very little of the nasty sibilance that plagues Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. The kick drum punches, and the electric guitars sound more immediate and aggressive. All this without the slightly "boxy" sound that some Classic remasterings have. That is serious mastering wizardry.

Disclaimer: I am a performing musician, so I base my reactions to recordings compared to the way live music sounds. Many of the technical things happening on recordings can turn out to be sonic illusions, so I hesitate to say there is more bass or treble on one copy or another.

 

Thanks. Very intersting.

I'd love to hear the Classic one day. I can't help but wonder if it was EQd with a smiley curve, but it sounds like I need to check it out.

I love the Philips pressing in the meantime. It's also about $100 cheaper, at current.

 

I just bought one of these W&W Japan. I'll post my thoughts when it gets here.

 

My copy of Seconds Out is quite noisy. I have 1st issue Mad Hatter UK's (but no Pink Scrolls) and it appears that for Tresspass, Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot they use the same stampers as the Pink Scrolls.
When comparing NC and Foxtrot to the Classics the Classics are more dynamic. The UK sound recessed in comparison.

I've never done a comparison between SEBTP between the 1st UK and Classic most of the time I prefer the UK on that title. The EMI 100 anniversay is not too shabby either.

 

Is this the 180 or 200 g Classic version of NC you're speaking of? Is there a sound quality difference between the two weights? Same mastering and stampers? Thanks.

 

Haven't heard the Classic LP - am happy with the blue Philps - that is how i want the LP to sound if you know what i mean ?
I got various CD masterings and none can match the LP - but you spaked my interest in a Classic version - I an only interested in the 5 real Genesis albums anyway (with Peter Gabriel)..

 

I acquired the Classic Records Nursery Cryme in about 2001. It must be a fairly early pressing on 180 gram vinyl. I have not heard the 200g version.

 

Cleaned the Blue Philips NC on the VPI this morning. It got noticeably quieter. I still prefer the Classic.

Another Philips came in the mail today--sounds pretty much the same as the other one.

The Philips sounds a bit distant and dark on my table (LP12 w/Lingo).

Do you think the Philips might sound more open on different systems?

 

Sure, but I tend to like what some people might find to be softer, "dark" production. I'd describe the sound of the Philips that way on my rig as well.

 

I wouldn't characterize the Classic as being bright, though. Just compared to other versions, it sounds like the band moved from down the hall and into the room.

And no, I don't work for Classic Even though their quality is tops, I often prefer other pressings, usually early vintage copies with their magic.

 

Thanks. My Classic Records Nursery Cryme is also an early release. It is not the 200g either. But, it is unopened so I have not heard it...yet!