Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part II), Album By Album...

I think some folks use this place as music discussion forum. Some find time to sit and discuss every single album by their favorite artists here, but can't find the time to hook up two speakers and learn how to listen to music online.

And unfortunately, yes, I'm actually serious. I would bet that this applies to more people than have admitted it.

To me, this is nothing short of pathetic. You're on an audiophile forum, discussing sound quality issues. Take half an hour out of your life and make sure you're properly connected, cabled up and capable of utilizing this place.


For the people who just can't be "bothered," I have even less ability to comprehend what their reason is for being on a mastering forum.

Some people don't seem to trust their computer speakers to reveal much. This, to me, is understandable, but over thinking things. Some of these samples show differences that a transistor radio could reveal. Some don't, so if they don't, either don't worry about it or download and burn to a CDR. Big deal, right?

The last thing that happens is like you and I, where you just get too busy sometimes. You get behind in reading through threads, forget to come back to something at a better time or are sick of trying to figure out a certain album ... or whatever. You would think this would be the only reason people here wouldn't listen to samples, but I suspect this is not the case.

 

I just played them. The EMI Swindon sounds so much better than the other one. Blue sounds like there's a bunch of 1kHz EQ'd into it with a lot of top end taken out.

 

Jeff with all due respect, I think that's pretty unfair on your part. I don't come here for audiophile stuff. I purely come here to read knowledge about music because there are few places on the 'net with more knowledge than here.

In regards to "hooking up two speakers", I use a laptop 100% of the time. At home, I'm sitting in my easy chair and hooking up speakers really isn't an option. That and the built-in speakers in my laptop suck more than a $2...oh nevermind. I'd never hear any kind of difference. So to call those of us who come here to talk about music "nothing short of pathetic" is out of line man. Come on now.

 

Hold up, Jaime, so you think the Swindon sounds like it has 1k with top end taken out but sounds better?

 

Sorry, my wording was a bit clumsy. I meant the Blue Swirl sounds like that. The Swindon is the good one.

 

I didn't say that you were pathetic. You've changed a specific to a general. I enjoy talking about music here, too.

I said that to belong to an audiophile forum and never have the ability to listen to samples is, itself, pathetic. You could own this and change, helping to participate here more or argue the point, but I still think I'm right.

I don't always have the ability either, and sometimes I'm on a laptop, but this is not a factor for me 24/7.

 

So you and Dave disagree on this.

Well, I am still undecided. The Swindon involves me more, but the blueface has some more amazing dynamics going on. On "Burning Rope," for example, the bass notes are simply astounding, going from very low to very cutting and edgy. The Swindon doesn't seem to have quite those dynamics, but sounds more natural to me.

 

I was concerned with fidelity and the Swindon is the best sounding choice. It's very alive and the drums sound wonderful (if that is possible with this recording. ).

 

Yeah, I am pretty impressed with what happens when you really crank the Swindon. It just comes alive and almost makes me rethink why I never thought the production on this album was all that good.

 

Level matching was the key here. After lining up the two clips in a CoolEdit multitrack session and dropping the Blueface 4dB, I have to give the nod to the SWINDON ( = NIMBUS). It sounds more open and natural, while the Blueface seems "stuffed" in comparison.

 

The term "stuffed" is an excellent choice for the sound of my blueface 3 Sides Live. Is this a common thing with these WG V/C's?

 

I'm so confused! Where was the blueface manufactured??

 

This one says Made In the UK, but I have one of Trick that says Made in WG.

 

I hear what you mean about the drums. I like that too. But I feel like I'd be giving up the better imaging/separation of the blueface, if I have my clips right.

I like this album a lot, I think it's very underappreciated. Shamefully, I have a guilty pleasure of kind of liking the smiley-face sound of the DE. But after hearing these different pressings I'm beginning to think any EQ adjustment that helps something on this album will mess something else up.

 

I don't think the Blueface has better imaging/separation. On the contrary, IMO. Level matching them was an eye-opener (or ear-opener) for me.

Re the DE: I like it too, and would rank it above the Blueface. It has the low-end that the Swindon/Nimbus lacks.

BTW, for those who cares about such details:The Blueface and the DE have inverted phase compared to the Swindon/Nimbus. Which ones that "suck" or "blow" is up to you to decide .

 

I boosted the low-end on my V/C a little.

But for the Blueface, again, I'm surprised you feel that way. I level matched them too and got the opposite experience. Just to get our clips straight, the Swindon is the one that needed the level boost to match, correct? Actually, I should of dropped the level of the loud one for comparison in hindsight, and I also should have converted it to 32 bit floating point first.

 

I don't think boosting one or lowering the other does much of a difference. 32bFP conversion neither.
I guess we just have to agree on disagreeing on this one. Maybe we could write it up on the good old system dependency account?

 

Wow! I thought the blue-faces were all WG in origin!

I guess when the day comes for an album-by-album thread, we should include all the known variations.

 

Yeah, we could do that, or you could all change your minds and agree with me.

 

I did, too.

This one looks like a WG pressing in every way but says Made In The UK right on it. I would suspect that maybe Virgin issued some of the very earliest UK pressings this way. The rear insert does not have a barcode.

 

The Swindon Abacab has the same thing, inverted phase.

To me, it is audible. Some of these EMI/Swindon pressings have what I can only describe as a tightly wound sound to my ears. A fairly distinctive sound, actually. I wonder if phase reversal is common with their plant and whether this has any bearing on what I am hearing on these pressings?

 

The ATTWT comparison has taken over, so just to provide some closure here, I'll reveal the clip sources for the Foxtrot bit I posted a few days ago:

1. EMI/Swindon V/C
2. US Atlantic
3. Definitive Edition remaster

Yes, the US Atlantic does reverse the phase. Since the EMI/Swindon and the DE match, I'm assuming the US Atlantic is wrong.

I hadn't noticed the channel imbalance on the Atlantic--good catch!

The US Atlantic had a 2db lower average RMS level, which is why I matched RMS levels before I posted the clip. The EMI/Swindon and the DE were pretty well level-matched from the get go. Their tonality is also fairly close, so I'd speculate that they're working from the same tape.

The NR on the DE is horrendous. Listen to the way it absolutely clobbers the little sing-song "nah nah" bit from a distant Peter Gabriel as the dynamics die down in preparation for the 12-string section leading up to the big bass pedals. It's almost like a noise gate cancels out that delicate little moment. Can't remember who said it, but yes, surely Nick Davis must regret applying that kind of destructive NR. Foxtrot seems to be a pretty hissy master tape, but not distractingly so--and here the cure is far worse than the curse.

I hope you enjoyed the listen!

 

Nice work and very informative. I would not bet that the phase on the Atlantic is necessarily wrong. Have we confirmed that the phase on the DADC and Nimbus matches the Swindon and DE?

 

Thanks.

I haven't confirmed, but EAC song peak info indicates that the Nimbus and Swindon masterings (not pressings) are the same.